Meditations Of A Mediocre Mormon

Purify Your Life

2007-02-27T21:57:00.000Z

To compensate for my last song, here is something more uplifting

Purify Your Life By J9T

Purify your life said He
Then you'll reach your destiny
The light of life will bring you peace
Your happiness will then increase

The sorrows that now burden you
Will melt away if you stay true
I know the road is long and you feel so weak
But you will have the strength if the Lord you'll seek

So purify your life be strong
You can still feel right when things go so wrong
I know the pain is real and you feel so sad
Longing for things that you never had

Then listen to the Lord when He says "Come follow me"
He has the power to set you free
Then sorrow and guilt will surely melt
As peace replaces the heartache you felt

So purify your life said He
You can still reach your destiny
To be with God
To be like God
To have all things that God has

SkinCrawl

2007-02-27T16:47:00.000Z

Has anyone heard of the song "creep" by radiohead? Well my song SkinCrawl follows in its worthy footsteps. See if you can figure out what its about.

Verse
This is a sad song
Its all about me
Ignored by the birds
I got stung by a bee

Verse
I learned for myself
That less isn't more
The 'No Entry' sign
on your bedroom door

Verse
I saw the writing on the wall
Two little words they were 'skin' and 'crawl'
R-E-P-U-L-S-I-V-E
Your favourite word to describe me

Bridge
and you don't want me
you dont need me
you don't want me
don't want to please me

Chorus
Well I didn't realise
I made your skin crawl
If I'd have known I wouldn't have touched you at all
I never wanted to see you cry
But if I told you I loved you I'd be telling a liar

Bridge
I feel so dirty
So repulsive
I feel so dirty

Verse
So this is a sad song
The subject is me
Shunned by the birds
I got stung by a bee
I'm telling you now
Less isn't more
The 'No Entry ' sign on your bedroom door

Chorus
I never realised I made your skin crawl
I never realised I made your skin crawl
I never realised I made your skin crawl
I guess we've got no future at all

Ruby On Rails

2007-02-27T10:42:00.000Z

As you may or may not know I will be unemployed by the end of March 2007. Yes I took the bribe by British Airways and promised to leave the building (along with Elvis) on condition they give me a years salary (they called it voluntary severence). So now I have to find another way to be gainfully employed. So after selling most of my java books to Carl I have invested £55 quid in "The Ruby Way" & "Ruby On Rails" in the hope, nay expectation of gaining a heavy load of shekels to pay the "bills". So I will have to learn how to create a website & Ruby promises me to do it in a quick & elegant fashion. As I havent much to do at work for the next month I prepose to create something basic yet wonderful. Dear imaginary reader, I will let you know how I get on. Perhaps even creating a link to something I've actually produced.

British Airways, did you not realise that you are ridding the company of a genius beyond compare ? (perhaps they have seen my code & beg to differ)

The Rules Of Work

2007-02-26T11:25:00.000Z

I quite liked the book "the rules of work" but I didn't want to buy it (its great how shops are like libraries they days)

So here is a summary

The Rules Of Work

Rule

1.0: Walk your talk
1.1: Get your walk noticed
1.2: Never stand still
1.3: Volunteer carefully
1.4: Carve out a niche for yourself
1.5: Under promise and over deliver
1.6: Know something the others don't
1.7: Be 100 per cent committed
1.8: Enjoy what you are doing
1.9 Develop the right attitude
1.10:Never let anyone know how hard you work

2.0: Know that you're being judged at all times
2.1: Dress well
2.2: Cultivate a smile
2.3: No limp fish — develop the perfect handshake
2.4: Exude confidence and energy
2.5: Develop a style that gets you noticed
2.6: Pay attention to personal grooming
2.7: Be attractive
2.8 Be cool
2.9 Speak well
2.10:Write well

3.0: Have a plan
3.1: Know what you want long term
3.2: Know what you want short term
3.3: Study the promotion system
3.4: Develop a game plan
3.5: Set objectives
3.6: Know your role
3.7: Know your yourself — strengths and weaknesses
3.8: Identify key times and events
3.9: Anticipate threats
3.10:Look for opportunities

4.0: If you can't say anything nice — shut up
4.1: Don't gossip xx
4.2: Don't bitch
4.3: Stand up for others
4.4: Compliment people sincerely
4.5: Be cheerful and positive
4.6: Ask questions
4.7: Use 'please' and 'thank you'
4.8 Don't swear
4.9 Be a good listener
4.10 Only speak sense

5.0: Look after yourself
5.1: Know the ethics of your industry
5.2: Know the legalities of your industry
5.3: Set personal standards
5.4: Never lie
5.5: Never cover up for anyone else
5.6: Keep records
5.7: Know the difference between the truth and the whole truth
5.8: Cultivate your support/contacts/friends
5.9: Understand others' motives
5.10:Assume everyone else is playing by different rules

6.0: Blend in
6.1: Know the corporate culture
6.2: Speak the language
6.3: Dress up or down accordingly
6.4: Be adaptable in your dealings with different people
6.5: Know where to hang out, and when
6.6: Understand the social protocols
6.7: Know the rules about authority
6.8: Know the rules about the office hierarchy
6.9: Never disapprove of others
6.10 Understand the herd mentality

7.0: Act one step ahead
7.1: Dress one step ahead
7.2: Talk one step ahead
7.3: Act one step ahead
7.4: Think one step ahead
7.5: Address corporate issues and problems
7.6: Talk of 'we' rather than 'I'
7.7: Walk the talk
7.8: Spend more time with senior staff
7.9: Get people to assume you have already made the step
7.10:Prepare for the step after next

8.0: Cultivate diplomacy
8.1: Ask questions in times of conflict
8.2: Don't take sides
8.3: Know when to keep your opinions to yourself
8.4: Be conciliatory
8.5: Never lose your temper
8.6: Never get personal
8.7: Know how to handle other people's anger
8.8: Stand your ground
8.9: Be objective about the situation
8.10:Put things in perspective

9.0: Know the system — and milk it
9.1: Know all the unspoken rules of office life
9.2: Know what to call everyone
9.3: Know when to stay late and when to go early
9.4: Know the theft or perks rule
9.5: Identify the people who count
9.6: Be on the right side of the people who count
9.7: Be well up on new management techniques
9.8: Know the undercurrents and hidden agendas
9.9: Know the favourites and cultivate them
9.10:Know the mission statement and understand it

10.0: Handle the opposition
10.1: Identify the opposition
10.2: Study them closely
10.3: Don't back-stab
10.4: Know the psychology of promotion
10.5: Don't give too much away
10.6: Keep your ear to the ground
10.7: Make the opposition seem irreplaceable
10.8: Don’t damn the opposition with faint praise
10.9: Capitalise on the career enhancing moments
10.10: Cultivate the friendship and approval of your colleagues

My Ponderings

2007-02-25T23:40:00.000Z

can nothing produce something ? unlike rest of christianity, mormons say god didnt make everything out of nothing. so matter exists, so it must have always existed in some form for ever.

can non intelligence create intelligence ? according to evolution it can. I don't think it can so if intelligence exists then it must have again always existed in some form.

so Intelligence and matter combined gives us all the forms of life we see. No matter what athiests say they can't answer the simple questions of how it all started (does primordial soup give the answer? or a dot smaller than a full stop exploded to produce everything we see) so I think its reasonable to say the probability of their being a higher intelligence is much greater than everything evolved through chance

THE BOYS WHO FOUGHT IN NAM

2007-02-25T23:29:00.000Z

I love this poem (& I didn't even write it)

THE BOYS WHO FOUGHT IN NAM -
Danielle Steel

Passed hand to hand
the wishes
the dreams,
the hopes
of an entire generation
an entire nation
sent to war,
a score
of old men
leading all our boys
to die,
while we watched
in horror
in pain
in grief,
the disbelief
that we had to lose
so many of our boys,
their toys
barely left behind,
their eyes
so young
so bright
so full of hope,
the fight
so long
so sad,
the pain
so bad,
the wounds
so deep
until at last
our young men sleep
in their maker's arms again,
thier names carved
in stone
never to come home
never to touch our tears
again.....
lest we forget,
lest we grow old,
our hearts must never
be so cold
we must not run and hide,
we must remember them,
the boys who
died.....
let it not be in vain
let us not forget,
the pain,
the cries,
the agonies,
the braveries,
the heroes,
and the smiles,
the time that was
so long ago
across so many miles
in a land so bright
so green
caught in a place
just in between
hope and lies,
we must remember still,
must promise that
we always will
touch their hearts
while still
we can,
remember, friends.....
remenber
the boys who died,
who lived,
who cried,
the boys
who fought in Nam.

Tragedy or Destiny

2007-02-25T23:27:00.000Z

I Love this talk. President Kimball signed my mission papers along along time ago. In fact He died during my mission. What a great man.

Tragedy or Destiny? By Spencer W. Kimball

The daily newspaper screamed the headlines: "Plane Crash Kills 43. No Survivors of Mountain Tragedy," and thousands of voices joined in a chorus: "Why did the Lord let this terrible thing happen?"

Two automobiles crashed when one went through a red light, and six people were killed. Why would God not prevent this?

Why should the young mother die of cancer and leave her eight children motherless? Why did not the Lord heal her?

A little child was drowned; another was run over. Why?

A man died one day suddenly of a coronary occlusion as he climbed a stairway. His body was found slumped on the floor. His wife cried out in agony, "Why? Why would the Lord do this to me? Could he not have considered my three little children who still need a father?"

A young man died in the mission field and people critically questioned: "Why did not the Lord protect this youth while he was doing proselyting work?"

I wish I could answer these questions with authority, but I cannot. I am sure that sometime we'll understand and be reconciled. But for the present we must seek understanding as best we can in the gospel principles.

Was it the Lord who directed the plane into the mountain to snuff out the lives of its occupants, or were there mechanical faults or human errors?

Did our Father in heaven cause the collision of the cars that took six people into eternity, or was it the error of the driver who ignored safety rules?

Did God take the life of the young mother or prompt the child to toddle into the canal or guide the other child into the path of the oncoming car?

Did the Lord cause the man to suffer a heart attack? Was the death of the missionary untimely? Answer, if you can. I cannot, for though I know God has a major role in our lives, I do not know how much he causes to happen and how much he merely permits. Whatever the answer to this question, there is another I feel sure about.

Could the Lord have prevented these tragedies? The answer is, Yes. The Lord is omnipotent, with all power to control our lives, save us pain, prevent all accidents, drive all planes and cars, feed us, protect us, save us from labor, effort, sickness, even from death, if he will. But he will not.

We should be able to understand this, because we can realize how unwise it would be for us to shield our children from all effort, from disappointments, temptations, sorrows, and suffering.

The basic gospel law is free agency and eternal development. To force us to be careful or righteous would be to nullify that fundamental law and make growth impossible.

And the Lord spake unto Adam, saying: Inasmuch as thy children are conceived in sin, even so when they begin to grow up, sin conceiveth in their hearts, and they taste the bitter, that they may know to prize the good.

And it is given unto them to know good from evil; wherefore they are agents unto themselves…. (Moses 6:55-56.)

. . . Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him…. (Moses 4:3.)

If we looked at mortality as the whole of existence, then pain, sorrow, failure, and short life would be calamity. But if we look upon life as an eternal thing stretching far into the premortal past and on into the eternal post-death future, then all happenings may be put in proper perspective.

Is there not wisdom in his giving us trials that we might rise above them, responsibilities that we might achieve, work to harden our muscles, sorrows to try our souls? Are we not exposed to temptations to test our strength, sickness that we might learn patience, death that we might be immortalized and glorified?

If all the sick for whom we pray were healed, if all the righteous were protected and the wicked destroyed, the whole program of the Father would be annulled and the basic principle of the gospel, free agency, would be ended. No man would have to live by faith.

If joy and peace and rewards were instantaneously given the doer of good, there could be no evil—all would do good but not because of the rightness of doing good. There would be no test of strength, no development of character, no growth of powers, no free agency, only satanic controls.

Should all prayers be immediately answered according to our selfish desires and our limited understanding, then there would be little or no suffering, sorrow, disappointment, or even death, and if these were not, there would also be no joy, success, resurrection, nor eternal life and godhood.

For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things . . . righteousness wickedness holiness . . . misery . . . good . . . bad …. (2 Nephi 2:11.)

Being human, we would expel from our lives physical pain and mental anguish and assure ourselves of continual ease and comfort, but if we were to close the doors upon sorrow and distress, we might be excluding our greatest friends and benefactors. Suffering can make saints of people as they learn patience, long-suffering, and self-mastery. The sufferings of our Savior were part of his education.

Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. (Hebrews 5:8-9.)

I love the verse of "How Firm a Foundation" --

When through the deep waters I call thee to go,

The rivers of sorrow shall not thee o'erflow

For I will be with thee, thy troubles to bless,

And sanctify to thee thy deepest distress.

—Hymns No. 66

And Elder James E. Talmage wrote: "No pang that is suffered by man or woman upon the earth will be without its compensating effect . . . if it be met with patience."

On the other hand, these things can crush us with their mighty impact if we yield to weakness, complaining, and criticism.

No pain that we suffer, no trial that we experience is wasted. It ministers to our education, to the development of such qualities as patience, faith, fortitude and humility. All that we suffer and all that we endure, especially when we endure it patiently, builds up our characters, purifies our hearts, expands our souls, and makes us more tender and charitable, more worthy to be called the children of God . . . and it is through sorrow and suffering, toil and tribulation, that we gain the education that we come here to acquire and which will make us more like our Father and Mother in heaven…. (Orson F. Whitney)

There are people who are bitter as they watch loved ones suffer agonies and interminable pain and physical torture. Some would charge the Lord with unkindness, indifference, and injustice. We are so incompetent to judge!

I like also the words of these verses, the author of which I do not know:

Pain stayed so long I said to him today,

"I will not have you with me any more."

I stamped my foot and said, "Be on your way,"

And paused there, startled at the look he wore.

"I, who have been your friend," he said to me,

"I, who have been your teacher—all you know

Of understanding love, of sympathy,

And patience, I have taught you. Shall I go?"

He spoke the truth, this strange unwelcome guest;

I watched him leave, and knew that he was wise.

He left a heart grown tender in my breast,

He left a far, clear vision in my eyes.

I dried my tears, and lifted up a song --

Even for one who'd tortured me so long.

The power of the priesthood is limitless but God has wisely placed upon each of us certain limitations. I may develop priesthood power as I perfect my life, yet I am grateful that even through the priesthood I cannot heal all the sick. I might heal people who should die. I might relieve people of suffering who should suffer. I fear I would frustrate the purposes of God.

Had I limitless power, and yet limited vision and understanding, I might have saved Abinadi from the flames of fire when he was burned at the stake, and in doing so I might have irreparably damaged him. He died a martyr and went to a martyr's reward—exaltation.

I would likely have protected Paul against his woes if my power were boundless. I would surely have healed his "thorn in the flesh." And in doing so I might have foiled the Lord's program. Thrice he offered prayers, asking the Lord to remove the "thorn" from him, but the Lord did not so answer his prayers. Paul many times could have lost himself if he had been eloquent, well, handsome, and free from the things that made him humble. Paul speaks:

And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. (2 Corinthians 12:7, 9-10.)

I fear that had I been in Carthage Jail on June 27, 1844, I might have deflected the bullets that pierced the body of the Prophet and the Patriarch. I might have saved them from the sufferings and agony, but lost to them the martyr's death and reward. I am glad I did not have to make that decision.

With such uncontrolled power, I surely would have felt to protect Christ from the agony in Gethsemane, the insults, the thorny crown, the indignities in the court, the physical injuries. I would have administered to his wounds and healed them, giving him cooling water instead of vinegar. I might have saved him from suffering and death, and lost to the world his atoning sacrifice.

I would not dare to take the responsibility of bringing back to life my loved ones. Christ himself acknowledged the difference between his will and the Father's when he prayed that the cup of suffering be taken from him; yet he added, "Nevertheless, not my will but thine be done."

For the one who dies, life goes on and his free agency continues, and death, which seems to us such a calamity, could be a blessing in disguise just as well for one who is not a martyr.

Melvin J. Ballard wrote:

I lost a son six years of age and I saw him a man in the spirit world after his death, and I saw how he had exercised his own freedom of choice and would obtain of his own will and volition a companionship, and in due time to him and all those who are worthy of it, shall come all of the blessings and sealing privileges of the house of the Lord…. (Three Degrees of Glory.)

If we say that early death is a calamity, disaster, or tragedy, would it not be saying that mortality is preferable to earlier entrance into the spirit world and to eventual salvation and exaltation? If mortality be the perfect state, then death would be a frustration, but the gospel teaches us there is no tragedy in death, but only in sin. ". . . blessed are the dead that die in the Lord…. " (D&C 63:49.)

We know so little. Our judgment is so limited. We judge the Lord's ways from our own narrow view.

I spoke at the funeral service of a young Brigham Young University student who died during World War II. There had been hundreds of thousands of young men rushed prematurely into eternity through the ravages of that war, and I made the statement that I believed this righteous youth had been called to the spirit world to preach the gospel to these deprived souls. This may not be true of all who die, but I felt it true of him.

In his vision of "The Redemption of the Dead" President Joseph F. Smith saw this very thing. He sat studying the scriptures on October 3, 1918, particularly the statements in Peter's epistle regarding the antediluvians. He writes:

. . . As I pondered over these things which are written, the eyes of my understanding were opened, and the Spirit of the Lord rested upon me, and I saw the hosts of the dead.

While this vast multitude of the righteous waited and conversed, rejoicing in the hour of their deliverance . . . the Son of God appeared, declaring liberty to the captives who had been faithful, and there He preached to them the . . . redemption of mankind from the fall, and from individual sins on conditions of repentance. But unto the wicked he did not go, and among the ungodly and the unrepentant who had defiled themselves while in the flesh, His voice was not raised, neither did the rebellious who rejected the testimonies and the warnings of the ancient prophets behold his presence, nor look upon his face….

And as I wondered . . . I perceived that the Lord went not in person among the wicked and the disobedient who had rejected the truth . . . but behold, from among the righteous He organized his forces . . . and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel….

. . . our Redeemer spent His time . . . in the world of spirits, instructing and preparing the faithful spirits . . . who had testified of Him in the flesh, that they might carry the message of redemption unto all the dead unto whom He could not go personally because of their rebellion and transgression….

Among the great and mighty ones who were assembled in this vast congregation of the righteous were Father Adam . . . Eve, with many of her faithful daughters . . . Abel, the first martyr . . . Seth, . . . Noah, . . . Shem, the great High Priest; Abraham, . . . Isaac, Jacob, and Moses . . . Ezekiel, . . . Daniel…. All these and many more, even the prophets who dwelt among the Nephites…. The Prophet Joseph Smith, and my father, Hyrum Smith, Brigham Young, . . . and other choice spirits . . . in the spirit world. I observed that they were also among the noble and great ones who were chosen in the beginning to be rulers in the Church of God….

I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption…. (Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, pp. 472-76.)

Death, then, may be the opening of the door to opportunities, including that of teaching the gospel of Christ. There is no greater work.

Despite the fact that death opens new doors, we do not seek it. We are admonished to pray for those who are ill and use our priesthood power to heal them.

And the elders of the church, two or more, shall be called, and shall pray for and lay their hands upon them in my name; and if they die they shall die unto me, and if they live they shall live unto me.

Thou shalt live together in love, insomuch that thou shalt weep for the loss of them that die, and more especially for those that have not hope of a glorious resurrection.

And it shall come to pass that those that die in me shall not taste of death, for it shall be sweet unto them;

And they that die not in me, wo unto them, for their death is bitter.

And again, it shall come to pass that he that hath faith in me to be healed, and is not appointed unto death, shall be healed. (D&C 42:44-48.)

We are assured by the Lord that the sick will be healed if the ordinance is performed, if there is sufficient faith, and if the ill one is "not appointed unto death." But there are three factors, all of which should be satisfied. Many do not comply with the ordinances, and great numbers are unwilling or incapable of exercising sufficient faith. But the other factor also looms important: If they are not appointed unto death.

Everyone must die. Death is an important part of life. Of course, we are never quite ready for the change. Not knowing when it should come, we properly fight to retain our life. Yet we ought not be afraid of death. We pray for the sick, we administer to the afflicted, we implore the Lord to heal and reduce pain and save life and postpone death, and properly so, but not because eternity is so frightful.

The Prophet Joseph Smith confirmed:

The Lord takes many away even in infancy, that they may escape the envy of man and the sorrows and evils of this present world; they were too pure, too lovely, to live on this earth. Therefore, if rightly considered, instead of mourning we have reason to rejoice as they are delivered from evil and we shall have them again. The only difference between the old and the young dying is, one lives longer in heaven and eternal light and glory than the other, and is freed a little sooner from this miserable world.

Just as Ecclesiastes (3:2) says, I am confident that there is a time to die, but I believe also that many people die before "their time" because they are careless, abuse their bodies, take unnecessary chances, or expose themselves to hazards, accidents, and sickness.

Of the antediluvians, we read:

Hast thou marked the old way which wicked men have trodden?

Which were cut down out of time, whose foundation was overflown with a flood. (Job 22:15-16.)

In Ecclesiastes 7:17 we find this statement:

Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time?

I believe we may die prematurely but seldom exceed our time very much. One exception was Hezekiah, 25-year-old king of Judah who was far more godly than his successors or predecessors.

In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And the prophet Isaiah . . . came to him, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live.

Hezekiah, loving life as we do, turned his face to the wall and wept bitterly, saying:

. . . remember now how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight….

The Lord yielded unto his prayers.

. . . I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold I will heal thee….

And I will add unto thy days fifteen years; and I will deliver thee and this city out of the hand of the king of Assyria…. (2 Kings 20:1, 3, 5-6.)

A modern illustration of this exceptional extension of life took place in November, 1881.

My uncle, David Patten Kimball, left his home in Arizona on a trip across the Salt River desert. He had fixed up his books and settled accounts and had told his wife of a premonition that he would not return. He was lost on the desert for two days and three nights, suffering untold agonies of thirst and pain. He passed into the spirit world and described later, in a letter of January 8, 1882, to his sister, what happened there. He had seen his parents. "My father . . . told me I could remain there if I chose to do so, but I plead with him that I might stay with my family long enough to make them comfortable, to repent of my sins, and more fully prepare myself for the change. Had it not been for this, I never should have returned home, except as a corpse. Father finally told me I could remain two years and to do all the good I could during that time, after which he would come for me…. He mentioned four others that he would come for also. Two years to the day from that experience on the desert he died easily and apparently without pain. Shortly before he died he looked up and called, "Father, Father." Within approximately a year of his death the other four men named were also dead.

God has many times preserved the lives of his servants until they could complete their work—Abinadi, Enoch, the sons of Helaman, and Paul.

And God will sometimes use his power over death to protect us. Heber C. Kimball was subjected to a test which, like the one given Abraham, was well-nigh unthinkable. Comfortless and in great perplexity he importuned the Prophet Joseph to inquire of the Lord, and the Prophet received this revelation: "Tell him to go and do as he has been commanded, and if I see that there is any danger of his apostatizing, I will take him to myself." (Orson F. Whitney, Life of Heber C. Kimball.)

God controls our lives, guides and blesses us, but gives us our agency. We may live our lives in accordance with his plan for us or we may foolishly shorten or terminate them.

I am positive in my mind that the Lord has planned our destiny. Sometime we'll understand fully, and when we see back from the vantage point of the future, we shall be satisfied with many of the happenings of this life that are so difficult for us to comprehend.

We sometimes think we would like to know what lies ahead, but sober thought brings us back to accepting life a day at a time and magnifying and glorifying that day. Sister Ida Allredge gave us a thought-provoking verse:

I cannot know the future, nor the path I shall have trod,

But by that inward vision, which points the way to God.

I would not glimpse the beauty or joy for me in store,

Lest patience ne'er restrain me from thrusting wide the door.

I would not part the curtains or cast aside the veil,

Else sorrows that await me might make my courage fail;

I'd rather live not knowing, just doing my small mite;

I'd rather walk by faith with God, than try alone the light.

We knew before we were born that we were coming to the earth for bodies and experience and that we would have joys and sorrows, ease and pain, comforts and hardships, health and sickness, successes and disappointments, and we knew also that after a period of life we would die. We accepted all these eventualities with a glad heart, eager to accept both the favorable and unfavorable. We eagerly accepted the chance to come earthward even though it might be for only a day or a year. Perhaps we were not so much concerned whether we should die of disease, of accident, or of senility. We were willing to take life as it came and as we might organize and control it, and this without murmur, complaint, or unreasonable demands.

As A Man Thinketh

2007-02-25T23:22:00.000Z

One of my all time favourite books. Absolutely brilliant.

As A Man Thinketh - by James Allen

This little volume (the result of meditation and experience) is not intended as an exhaustive treatise on the much-written upon subject of the power of thought. It is suggestive rather than explanatory, its object being to stimulate men and women to the discovery and perception of the truth that -

"They themselves are makers of themselves"

by virtue of the thoughts which they choose and encourage; that mind is the master weaver, both of the inner garment of character and the outer garment of circumstance, and that, as they may have hitherto woven in ignorance and pain they may now weave in enlightenment and happiness.

Chapter One: Thought and Character

The aphorism, "As a man thinketh in his heart so is he," not only embraces the whole of a man's being, but is so comprehensive as to reach out to every condition and circumstance of his life. A man is literally what he thinks, his character being the complete sum of all his thoughts.

As the plant springs from, and could not be without, the seed, so every act of a man springs from the hidden seeds of thought, and could not have appeared without them. This applies equally to those acts called "spontaneous" and "unpremeditated" as to those which are deliberately executed.

Act is the blossom of thought, and joy and suffering are its fruits; thus does a man garner in the sweet and bitter fruitage of his own husbandry.

Thought in the mind hath made us. What we are

By thought we wrought and built. If a man's mind

Hath evil thoughts, pain comes on him as comes

The wheel the ox behind . . . If one endure in purity

of thought joy follows him as his own shadow - sure.

Man is a growth by law, and not a creation by artifice, and cause and effect is as absolute and undeviating in the hidden realm of thought as in the world of visible and material things. A noble and Godlike character is not a thing of favor or chance, but is the natural result of continued effort in right thinking, the effect of long-cherished association with Godlike thoughts. An ignoble and bestial character, by the same process, is the result of the continued harboring of groveling thoughts.

Man is made or unmade by himself; in the armory of thought he forges the weapons by which he destroys himself. He also fashions the tools with which he builds for himself heavenly mansions of joy and strength and peace. By the right choice and true application of thought, man ascends to the Divine Perfection; by the abuse and wrong application of thought, he descends below the level of the beast. Between these two extremes are all the grades of character, and man is their maker and master.

Of all the beautiful truths pertaining to the soul which have been restored and brought to light in this age, none is more gladdening or fruitful of divine promise and confidence than this - that man is the master of thought, the molder of character, and maker and shaper of condition, environment, and destiny.

As a being of Power, Intelligence, and Love, and the lord of his own thoughts, man holds the key to every situation, and contains within himself that transforming and regenerative agency by which he may make himself what he wills.

Man is always the master, even in his weakest and most abandoned state; but in his weakness and degradation he is the foolish master who misgoverns his "household." When he begins to reflect upon his condition, and to search diligently for the Law upon which his being is established, he then becomes the wise master, directing his energies with intelligence, and fashioning his thoughts to fruitful issues. Such is the conscious master, and man can only thus become by discovering within himself the laws of thought; which discovery is totally a matter of application, self-analysis, and experience.

Only by much searching and mining are gold an diamonds obtained, and man can find every truth connected with his being if he will dig deep into the mine of his soul. And that he is the maker of his character, the molder of his life, and the builder of his destiny, he may unerringly prove: if he will watch, control, and alter his thoughts, tracing their effects upon himself, upon others, and upon his life and circumstances; if he will link cause and effect by patient practice and investigation, utilizing his every experience, even to the most trivial, as a means of obtaining that knowledge of himself. In this direction, as in no other, is the law absolute that "He that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened"; for only by patience, practice, and ceaseless importunity can a man enter the Door of the Temple of Knowledge.

Chapter Two: Effect of Thought on Circumstances

A man's mind may be likened to a garden, which may be intelligently cultivated or allowed to run wild; but whether cultivated or neglected, it must, and will, bring forth. If no useful seeds are put into it, then an abundance of useless weed seeds will fall therein, and will continue to produce their kind.

Just as a gardener cultivates his plot, keeping it free from weeds, and growing the flowers and fruits which he requires, so may a man tend the garden of his mind, weeding out all the wrong, useless, and impure thoughts, and cultivating toward perfection the flowers and fruits of right, useful, and pure thoughts, By pursuing this process, a man sooner or later discovers that he is the master gardener of his soul, the director of his life. He also reveals, within himself, the laws of thought, and understands with ever-increasing accuracy, how the thought forces and mind elements operate in the shaping of his character, circumstances, and destiny.

Thought and character are one, and as character can only manifest and discover itself through environment and circumstance, the outer conditions of a person's life will always be found to be harmoniously related to his inner state. This does not mean that a man's circumstances at any given time are an indication of his entire character, but that those circumstances are so intimately connected with some vital thought element within himself that, for the time being, they are indispensable to his development.

Every man is where he is by the law of his being. The thoughts which he has built into his character have brought him there, and in the arrangement of his life there is no element of chance, but all is the result of a law which cannot err. This is just as true of those who feel "out of harmony" with their surroundings as of those who are contented with them.

As the progressive and evolving being, man is where he is that he may learn that he may grow; and as he learns the spiritual lesson which any circumstance contains for him, it passes away and gives place to other circumstances.

Man is buffeted by circumstances so long as he believes himself to be the creature of outside conditions. But when he realizes that he may command the hidden soil and seeds of his being out of which circumstances grow, he then becomes the rightful master of himself.

That circumstances grow out of thought every man knows who has for any length of time practiced self-control and self-purification, for he will have noticed that the alteration in his circumstances has been in exact ratio with his altered mental condition. So true is this that when a man earnestly applies himself to remedy the defects in his character, and makes swift and marked progress, he passes rapidly through a succession of vicissitudes.

The soul attracts that which it secretly harbors; that which it loves, and also that which it fears. It reaches the height of its cherished aspirations. It falls to the level of its unchastened desires - and circumstances are the means by which the soul receives its own.

Every thought seed sown or allowed to fall into the mind, and to take root there, produces its own, blossoming sooner or later into act, and bearing its own fruitage of opportunity and circumstance. Good thoughts bear good fruit, bad thoughts bad fruit.

The outer world of circumstance shapes itself to the inner world of thought, and both pleasant and unpleasant external conditions are factors which make for the ultimate good of the individual. As the reaper of his own harvest, man learns both by suffering and bliss.

A man does not come to the almshouse or the jail by the tyranny of fate of circumstance, but by the pathway of groveling thoughts and base desires. Nor does a pure-minded man fall suddenly into crime by stress of any mere external force; the criminal thought had long been secretly fostered in the heart, and the hour of opportunity revealed its gathered power.

Circumstance does not make the man; it reveals him to himself. No such conditions can exist as descending into vice and its attendant sufferings apart from vicious inclinations, or ascending into virtue and its pure happiness without the continued cultivation of virtuous aspirations. And man, therefore, as the Lord and master of thought, is the maker of himself, the shaper and author of environment. Even at birth the soul comes to its own, and through every step of its earthly pilgrimage it attracts those combinations of conditions which reveal itself, which are the reflections of its own purity and impurity, its strength and weakness.

Men do not attract that which they want, but that which they are. Their whims, fancies, and ambitions are thwarted at every step, but their inmost thoughts and desires are fed with their own food, be it foul or clean. The "divinity that shapes our ends" is in ourselves; it is our very self. Man is manacled only by himself. Thought and action are the jailers of Fate - they imprison, being base. They are also the angels of Freedom - they liberate, being noble. Not what he wishes and prays for does a man get, but what he justly earns. His wishes and prayers are only gratified and answered when they harmonize with his thoughts and actions.

In the light of this truth, what, then, is the meaning of "fighting against circumstances"? It means that a man is continually revolting against an effect without, while all the time he is nourishing and preserving its cause in his heart. That cause may take the form of a conscious vice or an unconscious weakness; but whatever it is, it stubbornly retards the efforts of its possessor, and thus calls aloud for remedy.

Men are anxious to improve their circumstances, but are unwilling to improve themselves. They therefore remain bound. The man who does not shrink from self-crucifixion can never fail to accomplish the object upon which his heart is set. This is as true of earthly as of heavenly things. Even the man whose sole object is to acquire wealth must be prepared to make great personal sacrifices before he can accomplish his object; and how much more so he who would realize a strong and well-poised life?

Here is a man who is wretchedly poor. He is extremely anxious that his surroundings and home comforts should be improved. Yet all the time he shirks his work, and considers he is justified in trying to deceive his employer on the ground of the insufficiency of his wages. Such a man does not understand the simplest rudiments of those principles which are the basis of true prosperity. He is not only totally unfitted to rise out of his wretchedness, but is actually attracting to himself a still deeper wretchedness by dwelling in, and acting out, indolent, deceptive, and unmanly thoughts.

Here is a rich man who is the victim of a painful and persistent disease as the result of gluttony. He is willing to give large sums of money to get rid of it, but he will not sacrifice his gluttonous desires. He wants to gratify his taste for rich and unnatural foods and have his health as well. Such a man is totally unfit to have health, because he has not yet learned the first principles of a healthy life.

Here is an employer of labor who adopts crooked measures to avoid paying the regulation wage, and, in the hope of making larger profits, reduces the wages of his workpeople. Such a man is altogether unfitted for prosperity. And when he finds himself bankrupt, both as regards reputation and riches, he blames circumstances, not knowing that he is the sole author of his condition.

I have introduced these three cases merely as illustrative of the truth that man is the cause (though nearly always unconsciously) of his circumstances. That, while aiming at the good end, he is continually frustrating its accomplishment by encouraging thoughts and desires which cannot possibly harmonize with that end. Such cases could be multiplied and varied almost indefinitely, but this is not necessary. The reader can, if he so resolves, trace the action of the laws of thought in his own mind and life, and until this is done, mere external facts cannot serve as a ground of reasoning.

Circumstances, however, are so complicated, thought is so deeply rooted, and the conditions of happiness vary so vastly with individuals, that a man's entire soul condition (although it may be known to himself) cannot be judged by another from the external aspect of his life alone.

A man may be honest in certain directions, yet suffer privations. A man may be dishonest in certain directions, yet acquire wealth. But the conclusion usually formed that the one man fails because of his particular honesty, and that the other prospers because of his particular dishonesty, is the result of a superficial judgment, which assumes that the dishonest man is almost totally corrupt, and honest man almost entirely virtuous. In the light of a deeper knowledge and wider experience, such judgment is found to be erroneous. The dishonest man may have some admirable virtues which the other does not possess; and the honest man obnoxious vices which are absent in the other. The honest man reaps the good results of his honest thoughts and acts; he also brings upon himself the sufferings which his vices produce. The dishonest man likewise garners his own suffering and happiness.

It is pleasing to human vanity to believe that one suffers because of one's virtue. But not until a man has extirpated every sickly, bitter, and impure thought from his mind, and washed every sinful stain from his soul, can he be in a position to know and declare that his sufferings are the result of his good, and not of his bad qualities. And on the way to that supreme perfection, he will have found working in his mind and life, the Great Law which is absolutely just, and which cannot give good for evil, evil for good. Possessed of such knowledge, he will then know, looking back upon his past ignorance and blindness, that his life is, and always was, justly ordered, and that all his past experiences, good and bad, were the equitable outworking of his evolving, yet unevolved self.

Good thoughts and actions can never produce bad results. Bad thoughts and actions can never produce good results. This is but saying that nothing can come from corn but corn, nothing from nettles but nettles. Men understand this law in the natural world, and work with it. But few understand it in the mental and moral world (though its operation there is just as simple and undeviating), and they, therefore, do not cooperate with it.

Suffering is always the effect of wrong thought in some direction. It is an indication that the individual is out of harmony with himself, with the Law of his being. The sole and supreme use of suffering is to purify, to burn out all that is useless and impure. Suffering ceases for him who is pure. There could be not object in burning gold after the dross had been removed, and perfectly pure and enlightened being could not suffer.

The circumstances which a man encounters with suffering are the result of his own mental inharmony. The circumstances which a man encounters with blessedness, not material possessions, is the measure of right thought. Wretchedness, not lack of material possessions, is the measure of wrong thought. A man may be cursed and rich; he may be blessed and poor. blessedness and riches are only joined together when the riches are rightly and wisely used. And the poor man only descends into wretchedness when he regards his lot as a burden unjustly imposed.

Indigence and indulgence are the two extremes of wretchedness. They are both equally unnatural and the result of mental disorder. A man is not rightly conditioned until he is a happy, healthy, and prosperous being. And happiness, health, and prosperity are the result of a harmonious adjustment of the inner with the outer, of the man with his surroundings.

A man only begins to be a man when he ceases to whine and revile, and commences to search for the hidden justice which regulates his life. And as he adapts his mind to that regulating factor, he ceases to accuse others as the cause of his condition, and builds himself up in strong and noble thoughts. He ceases to kick against circumstances, but begins to use them as aids to his more rapid progress, and as a means of discovering the hidden powers and possibilities within himself.

Law, not confusion, is the dominating principle in the universe. Justice, not injustice, is the soul and substance of life. And righteousness, not corruption, is the molding and moving force in the spiritual government of the world. This being so, man has but to right himself to find that the universe is right; and during the process of putting himself right, he will find that as he alters his thoughts toward things and other people, things and other people will alter toward him.

The proof of this truth is in every person, and it therefore admits of easy investigation by systematic introspection and self-analysis. Let a man radically alter his thoughts, and he will be astonished at the rapid transformation it will effect in the material conditions of his life.

men imagine that thought can be kept secret, but it cannot. It rapidly crystallizes into habit, and habit solidifies into habits of drunkenness and sensuality, which solidify into circumstances of destitution and disease. Impure thoughts of every kind crystallize into enervating and confusing habits, which solidify into distracting and adverse circumstances. Thoughts of fear, doubt, and indecision crystallize into weak, unmanly, and irresolute habits, which solidify into circumstances of failure, indigence, and slavish dependence.

Lazy thoughts crystallize into habits of uncleanliness and dishonesty, which solidify into circumstances of foulness and beggary. Hateful and condemnatory thoughts crystallize into habits of accusation and violence, which solidify into circumstances of injury and persecution. Selfish thoughts of all kinds crystallize into habits of self-seeking, which solidify into circumstances more of less distressing.

On the other hand, beautiful thoughts of all crystallize into habits of grace and kindliness, which solidify into genial and sunny circumstances. Pure thoughts crystallize into habits of temperance and self-control, which solidify into circumstances of repose and peace. Thoughts of courage, self-reliance, and decision crystallize into manly habits, which solidify into circumstances of success, plenty, and freedom.

Energetic thoughts crystallize into habits of cleanliness and industry, which solidify into circumstances of pleasantness. Gentle and forgiving thoughts crystallize into habits of gentleness, which solidify into protective and preservative circumstances. Loving and unselfish thoughts crystallize into habits of self-forgetfulness for others, which solidify into circumstances of sure and abiding prosperity and true riches.

A particular train of thought persisted in, be it good or bad, cannot fail to produce its results on the character and circumstances. A man cannot directly choose his circumstances, but he can choose his thoughts, and so indirectly, yet surely, shape his circumstances.

Nature helps every man to the gratification of the thoughts which he most encourages, and opportunities are presented which will most speedily bring to the surface both the good and evil thoughts.

Let a man cease from his sinful thoughts, and all the world will soften toward him, and be ready to help him. Let him put away his weakly and sickly thoughts, and lo! opportunities will spring up on every hand to aid his strong resolves. Let him encourage good thoughts, and no hard fate shall bind him down to wretchedness and shame. The world is your kaleidoscope, and the varying combinations of colors which at every succeeding moment it presents to you are the exquisitely adjusted pictures of your evermoving thoughts.

You will be what you will to be;

Let failure find its false content

In that poor word, "environment,"

But spirit scorns it, and is free.

It masters time, it conquers space;

It cows that boastful trickster, Chance,

And bids the tyrant Circumstance

Uncrown, and fill a servant's place.

The human Will, that force unseen,

The offspring of a deathless Soul,

Can hew a way to any goal,

Though walls of granite intervene.

Be not impatient in delay,

But wait as one who understands;

When spirit rises and commands,

The gods are ready to obey.

Chapter Three : Effect of Thought on Health and the Body

The body is the servant of the mind. It obeys the operations of the mind, whether they be deliberately chosen or automatically expressed. At the bidding of unlawful thoughts the body sinks rapidly into disease and decay; at the command of glad and beautiful thoughts it becomes clothed with youthfulness and beauty.

Disease and health, like circumstances, are rooted in thought. Sickly thoughts will express themselves through a sickly body. Thoughts of fear have been known to kill a man as speedily as a bullet, and they are continually killing thousands of people just as surely though less rapidly. The people who live in fear of disease are the people who get it. Anxiety quickly demoralizes the whole body, and lays it open to the entrance of disease; while impure thoughts, even if not physically indulged, will soon shatter the nervous system.

Strong, pure, and happy thoughts build up the body in vigor and grace. The body is a delicate and plastic instrument, which responds readily to the thoughts by which it is impressed, and habits of thought will produce their own effects, good or bad, upon it.

Men will continue to have impure and poisoned blood so long as they propagate unclean thoughts. Out of a clean heart comes a clean life and a clean body. Out of a defiled mind proceeds a defiled life and corrupt body. Thought is the fountain of action, life and manifestation; make the fountain pure, and all will be pure.

Change of diet will not help a man who will not change his thoughts. When a man makes his thoughts pure, he no longer desires impure food.

If you would perfect your body, guard your mind. If you would renew your body, beautify your mind. Thoughts of malice, envy, disappointment, despondency, rob the body of its health and grace. A sour face does not come by chance; it is made by sour thoughts. Wrinkles that mar are drawn by folly, passion, pride.

I know a woman of ninety-six who has the bright, innocent face of a girl. I know a man well under middle age whose face is drawn into inharmonious contours. The one is the result of a sweet and sunny disposition; the other is the outcome of passion and discontent.

As you cannot have a sweet and wholesome abode unless you admit the air and sunshine freely into your rooms, so a strong body and a bright, happy, or serene countenance can only result from the free admittance into the mind of thoughts of joy and good will and serenity.

On the faces of the aged there are wrinkles made by sympathy, others by strong and pure thought, others are carved by passion. Who cannot distinguish them? With those who have lived righteously, age is calm, peaceful, and softly mellowed, like the setting sun. I have recently seen a philosopher on his deathbed. He was not old except in years. He died as sweetly and peacefully as he had lived.

There is no physician like cheerful thought for dissipating the ills of the body; there is no comforter to compare with good will for dispersing the shadows of grief and sorrow. To live continually in thoughts of ill will, cynicism, suspicion, and envy, is to be confined in a self-made prison hole. But to think well of all, to be cheerful with all, to patiently learn to find the good in all - such unselfish thoughts are the very portals of heaven; and to dwell day to day in thoughts of peace toward every creature will bring abounding peace to their possessor.

Chapter Four : Thought and Purpose

Until thought is linked with purpose there is no intelligent accomplishment. With the majority the bark of thought is allowed to "drift" upon the ocean of life. Aimlessness is a vice, and such drifting must not continue for him who would steer clear of catastrophe and destruction.

They who have no central purpose in their life fall an easy prey to worries, fears, troubles, and self-pityings, all of which are indications of weakness, which lead, just as surely as deliberately planned sins (though by a different route), to failure, unhappiness, and loss, for weakness cannot persist in a power-evolving universe.

A man should conceive of a legitimate purpose in his heart, and set out to accomplish it. He should make this purpose the centralizing point of his thoughts. It may take the form of a spiritual ideal, or it may be a worldly object, according to his nature at the time being. But whichever it is, he should steadily focus his thought forces upon the object which he has set before him. He should make this purpose his supreme duty, and should devote himself to its attainment, not allowing his thoughts to wander away into ephemeral fancies, longings, and imaginings. This is the royal road to self-control and true concentration of thought. Even if he fails again and again to accomplish his purpose (as he necessarily must until weakness is overcome), the strength of character gained will be the measure of his true success, and this will form a new starting point for future power and triumph.

Those who are not prepared for the apprehension of a great purpose, should fix the thoughts upon the faultless performance of their duty, no matter how insignificant their task may appear. Only in this way can the thoughts be gathered and focused, and resolution and energy be developed, which being done, there is nothing which may not be accomplished.

The weakest soul, knowing its own weakness, and believing this truth - that strength can only be developed by effort and practice, will at once begin to exert itself, and adding effort to effort, patience to patience, and strength to strength, will never cease to develop, and will at last grow divinely strong.

As the physically weak man can make himself strong by careful and patient training, so the man of weak thoughts can make them strong by exercising himself in right thinking.

To put away aimlessness and weakness, and to begin to think with purpose, is to enter the ranks of those strong ones who only recognize failure as one of the pathways to attainment; who make all conditions serve them, and who think strongly, attempt fearlessly, and accomplish masterfully.

Having conceived of his purpose, a man should mentally mark out a straight pathway to its achievement, looking neither to the right nor to the left. Doubts and fears should be rigorously excluded; they are disintegrating elements which break up the straight line of effort, rendering it crooked, ineffectual, useless. Thoughts of doubt and fear never accomplish anything, and never can. They always lead to failure. Purpose, energy, power to do, and all strong thoughts cease when doubt and fear creep in.

The will to do springs from the knowledge that we can do. Doubt and fear are the great enemies of knowledge, and he who encourages them, who does not slay them, thwarts himself at every step.

He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure. His every thought is allied with power, and all difficulties are bravely met and wisely overcome. His purposes are seasonably planted, and they bloom and bring forth fruit which does not fall prematurely to the ground.

Thought allied fearlessly to purpose becomes creative force. He who knows this is ready to become something higher and stronger than a mere bundle of wavering thoughts and fluctuating sensations. He who does this has become the conscious and intelligent wielder of his mental powers.

Chapter Five: The Thought-Factor in Achievement

All that a man achieves and all that he fails to achieve is the direct result of his own thoughts. In a justly ordered universe, where loss of equipoise would mean total destruction, individual responsibility must be absolute. A man's weakness and strength, purity and impurity, are his own, and not another man's. They are brought about by himself, and not by another; and they can only be altered by himself, never by another. His condition is also his own, and not another man's. His suffering and his happiness are evolved from within. As he thinks, so he is; as he continues to think, so he remains.

A strong man cannot help a weaker unless the weaker is willing to be helped, and even then the weak man must become strong of himself. He must, by his own efforts, develop the strength which he admires in another. None but himself can alter his condition.

It has been usual for men to think and to say, "Many men are slaves because one is an oppressor; let us hate the oppressor." Now, however, there is among an increasing few a tendency to reverse this judgment, and to say, "One man is an oppressor because many are slaves; let us despise the slaves." The truth is that oppressor and slave are cooperators in ignorance, and, while seeming to afflict each other, are in reality afflicting themselves. A perfect Knowledge perceives the action of law in the weakness of the oppressed and the misapplied power of the oppressor. A perfect Love, seeing the suffering which both states entail, condemns neither. A perfect Compassion embraces both oppressor and oppressed.

He who has conquered weakness, and has put away all selfish thoughts, belongs neither to oppressor nor oppressed. He is free.

A man can only rise, conquer, and achieve by lifting up his thoughts. He can only remain weak, and abject, and miserable by refusing to lift up his thoughts.

Before a man can achieve anything, even in worldly things, he must lift his thoughts above slavish animal indulgence. He may not, in order to succeed, give up all animality and selfishness, by any means; but a portion of it must, at least, be sacrificed. A man whose first thought is bestial indulgence could neither think clearly nor plan methodically. He could not find and develop his latent resources, and would fail in any undertaking. Not having commenced manfully to control his thoughts, he is not in a position to control affairs and to adopt serious responsibilities. He is not fit to act independently and stand alone, but he is limited only by the thoughts which he chooses.

There can be no progress, no achievement without sacrifice. A man's worldly success will be in the measure that he sacrifices his confused animal thoughts, and fixes his mind on the development of his plans, and the strengthening of his resolution and self reliance. And the higher he lifts his thoughts, the more manly, upright, and righteous he becomes, the greater will be his success, the more blessed an enduring will be his achievements.

The universe does not favor the greedy, the dishonest, the vicious, although on the mere surface it may sometimes appear to do so; it helps the honest, the magnanimous, the virtuous. All the great Teachers of the ages have declared this in varying forms, and to prove and know it a man has but to persist in making himself more and more virtuous by lifting up his thoughts.

Intellectual achievements are the result of thought consecrated to the search for knowledge, or for the beautiful and true in life and nature. Such achievements may be sometimes connected with vanity and ambition but they are not the outcome of those characteristics. They are the natural outgrowth of long an arduous effort, and of pure and unselfish thoughts.

Spiritual achievements are the consummation of holy aspirations. He who lives constantly in the conception of noble and lofty thoughts, who dwells upon all that is pure and unselfish, will, as surely as the sun reaches its zenith and the moon its full, become wise and noble in character, and rise into a position of influence and blessedness.

Achievement, of whatever kind, is the crown of effort, the diadem of thought. By the aid of self-control, resolution, purity, righteousness, and well-directed thought a man ascends. By the aid of animality, indolence, impurity, corruption, and confusion of thought a man descends.

A man may rise to high success in the world, and even to lofty altitudes in the spiritual realm, and again descend into weakness and wretchedness by allowing arrogant, selfish, and corrupt thoughts to take possession of him.

Victories attained by right thought can only be maintained by watchfulness. Many give way when success is assured, and rapidly fall back into failure.

All achievements, whether in the business, intellectual, or spiritual world, are the result of definitely directed thought, are governed by the same law and are of the same method; the only difference lies in the object of attainment.

He who would accomplish little must sacrifice little. He who would achieve much must sacrifice much. He who would attain highly must sacrifice greatly.

Chapter Six: Visions and Ideals

The dreamers are the saviors of the world. As the visible world is sustained by the invisible, so men, through all their trials and sins and sordid vocations, are nourished by the beautiful visions of their solitary dreamers. Humanity cannot forget its dreamers. It cannot let their ideals fade and die. It lives in them. It knows them in the realities which it shall one day see and know.

Composer, sculptor, painter, poet, prophet, sage, these are the makers of the afterworld, the architects of heaven. The world is beautiful because they have lived; without them, laboring humanity would perish.

He who cherishes a beautiful vision, a lofty ideal in his heart, will one day realize it. Columbus cherished a vision of another world, and he discovered it. Copernicus fostered the vision of a multiplicity of worlds and a wider universe, and he revealed it. Buddha beheld the vision of a spiritual world of stainless beauty and perfect peace, and he entered into it.

Cherish your visions. Cherish your ideals. Cherish the music that stirs in your heart, the beauty that forms in your mind, the loveliness that drapes your purest thoughts, for out of them will grow all delightful conditions, all heavenly environment; of these, if you but remain true to them, your world will at last be built.

To desire is to obtain; to aspire is to achieve. Shall man's basest desires receive the fullest measure of gratification, and his purest aspirations starve for lack of sustenance? Such is not the Law. Such a condition of things can never obtain - "Ask and receive."

Dream lofty dreams, and as you dream, so shall you become. Your Vision is the promise of what you shall one day be. Your Ideal is the prophecy of what you shall at last unveil.

The greatest achievement was at first and for a time a dream. The oak sleeps in the acorn; the bird waits in the egg; and in the highest vision of the soul a waking angel stirs. Dreams are the seedlings of realities.

Your circumstances may be uncongenial, but they shall not long remain so if you but perceive an Ideal and strive to reach it. You cannot travel within and stand still without. Here is a youth hard pressed by poverty and labor; confined long hours in an unhealthy workshop; unschooled, and lacking all the arts of refinement. But he dreams of better things. He thinks of intelligence, of refinement, of grace and beauty. He conceives of, mentally builds up, an ideal condition of life. The vision of the wider liberty and a larger scope takes possession of him; unrest urges him to action, and he utilizes all his spare time and means, small though they are, to the development of his latent powers and resources.

Very soon so altered has his mind become that the workshop can no longer hold him. It has become so out of harmony with his mentality that it falls out of his life as a garment is cast aside, and with the growth of opportunities which fit the scope of his expanding powers, he passes out of it forever.

Years later we see this youth as a full-grown man. We find him a master of certain forces of the mind which he wields with world-wide influence and almost unequaled power. In his hands he holds the cords of gigantic responsibilities. He speaks, and lo! lives are changed. Men and women hang upon his words and remold their characters, and, sunlike, he becomes the fixed and luminous center around which innumerable destinies revolve. He has realized the Vision of his youth. He has become one with his Ideal.

And you, too, youthful reader, will realize the Vision (not the idle wish) of your heart, be it base or beautiful, or a mixture of both, for you will always gravitate toward that which you secretly most love. Into your hands will be placed the exact results of your own thoughts; you will receive that which you earn, no more, no less. Whatever your present environment may be, you will fall, remain, or rise with your thoughts, your Vision, your Ideal. You will become as small as your controlling desire; as great as your dominant aspiration.

In the beautiful words of Stanton Kirkham Dave, "You may be keeping accounts, and presently you shall walk out of the door that for so long has seemed to you the barrier of your ideals, and shall find yourself before an audience - the pen still behind your ear, the ink stains on your fingers - and then and there shall pour out the torrent of your inspiration. You may be driving sheep, and you shall wander to the city - bucolic and open mouthed; shall wander under the intrepid guidance of the spirit into the studio of the master, and after a time he shall say, 'I have nothing more to teach you.' And now you have become the master, who did so recently dream of great things while driving sheep. You shall lay down the saw and the plane to take upon yourself the regeneration of the world."

The thoughtless, the ignorant, and the indolent, seeing only the apparent effects of things and not the things themselves, talk of luck, of fortune, and chance. See a man grow rich, they say, "How lucky he is!" Observing another become intellectual, they exclaim, "How highly favored he is!" And noting the saintly character and wide influence of another, the remark, "How chance aids him at every turn!"

They do not see the trials and failures and struggles which these men have voluntarily encountered in order to gain their experience. They have no knowledge of the sacrifices they have made, of the undaunted efforts they have put forth, of the faith they have exercised, that they might overcome the apparently insurmountable, and realize the Vision of their heart. They do not know the darkness and the heartaches; they only see the light and joy, and call it "luck"; do not see the long and arduous journey, but only behold the pleasant goal, and call it "good fortune"; do not understand the process, but only perceive the result, and call it "chance."

In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result. Chance is not. "Gifts," powers, material, intellectual, and spiritual possessions are the fruits of effort. They are thoughts completed, objects accomplished, visions realized.

The vision that you glorify in your mind, the Ideal that you enthrone in your heart - this you will build your life by, this you will become.

Chapter Seven: Serenity

Calmness of mind is one of the beautiful jewels of wisdom. It is the result of long and patient effort in self-control. Its presence is an indication of ripened experience, and of a more than ordinary knowledge of the laws and operations of thought.

A man becomes calm in the measure that he understands himself as a thought-evolved being, for such knowledge necessitates the understanding of others as the result of thought. As he develops a right understanding, and sees more and more clearly the internal relations of things by the action of cause and effect, he ceases to fuss and fume and worry and grieve, and remains poised, steadfast, serene.

The calm man, having learned how to govern himself, knows how to adapt himself to others; and they, in turn, reverence his spiritual strength, and feel that they can learn of him and rely upon him. The more tranquil a man becomes, the greater is his success, his influence, his power for good. Even the ordinary trader will find his business prosperity increase as he develops a greater self-control and equanimity, for people will always prefer to deal with a man whose demeanor is strongly equable.

The strong calm man is always loved and revered. He is like a shade-giving tree in a thirsty land, or a sheltering rock in a storm. Who does not love a tranquil heart, a sweet-tempered, balanced life? It does not matter whether it rains or shines, or what changes come to those possessing these blessings, for they are always sweet, serene, and calm. That exquisite poise of character which we call serenity is the last lesson culture; it is the flowering of life, the fruitage of the soul. It is precious as wisdom, more to be desired than gold - yea, than even fine gold. How insignificant mere money-seeking looks in comparison with a serene life - a life that dwells in the ocean of Truth, beneath the waves, beyond the reach of tempests, in the Eternal Calm!

"How many people we know who sour their lives, who ruin all that is sweet and beautiful by explosive tempers, who destroy their poise of character, and make bad blood! It is a question whether the great majority of people do not ruin their lives and mar their happiness by lack of self-control. How few people we meet in life who are well-balanced, who have that exquisite poise which is characteristic of the finished character!"

Yes, humanity surges with uncontrolled passion, is tumultuous with ungoverned grief, is blown about by anxiety and doubt. Only the wise man, only he whose thoughts are controlled and purified, makes the winds and the storms of the soul obey him.

Tempest-tossed souls, wherever ye may be, under whatsoever conditions ye may live, know this - in the ocean of life the isles of Blessedness are smiling, and sunny shore of your ideal awaits your coming. Keep your hand firmly upon the helm of thought. In the bark of your soul reclines the commanding Master; He does but sleep; wake Him. Self-control is strength; Right Thought is mastery; Calmness is power.

Say unto your heart, "Peace, be still!"

The New and Everlasting Covenant

2007-02-25T23:19:00.000Z

Another brilliant article. As good as book "Believing Christ" by Stephen E. Robinson

The New and Everlasting Covenant

Chauncey C. Riddle

Professor of Philosophy

Brigham Young University

I begin with a word about speaking. Realities are wholes. Human words can never capture wholes; thus, human descriptions always fall short of being true to the reality they attempt to describe. The best we human speakers can do with words is to paint broad brush strokes that indicate some basic relationships and hope that each recipient will gain inspiration from that painting, partial and incomplete though it be, and that each hearer will then search for the truth of the matter through the Holy Spirit.

I propose to paint for you a picture of the new and everlasting covenant. I do not suppose that I can or will say everything necessary to do justice to this topic, but I will attempt to express what I feel to be certain key concepts and ideas that are important. I ask you to compare these with your own picturings of the reality of things in the hope that we may each move one step closer to understanding those things which are eternally important. I therefore bear the following witness.

The Gods

We begin with the concept of our God. We know of three beings who are our God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. These three are individuals, yet they are also one, and furthermore, they invite every human being to become one with them. The good news of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ is that God is our Father and invites us to become as he is and to become one with him through his son Jesus Christ.

Though there be gods and lords many, there is but one God, and that God is the priesthood-ordered community of all the righteous, exalted beings who exist. To be invited to join them by hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ is to receive the greatest message in the universe; to be enabled to join them by receiving the new and everlasting covenant is to have the greatest opportunity in the universe; to be joined with them is the greatest gift in the universe, which gift is life eternal, sharing with them all the good they have and are.

This good that they share is righteousness. Righteousness is that necessary order of social relationships in which beings of knowledge and power must bind themselves in order to live together in accomplishment and happiness for eternity. They bind themselves to each other with solemn covenants to become predictable, dependable, and united so that they can be trusted. They bind themselves to be honest, true, chaste, and benevolent so that they can do good for all other beings, which good they do by personal sacrifice to fulfil all righteousness.

The contrary of this good is evil. Evil is departing from God's order of righteousness by twisting and/or diminishing it. Evil enables one being in a social order to fulfil his own personal desires at the expense of others, thus to be a law unto himself.

Man

We, the children of God, as we are found in our natural and evil state upon the face of this earth, are called by the scriptures "natural man" or sometimes simply "man." The natural man is without God and Christ in the world and by default is carnal, sensual, and devilish. We are carnal insofar as we pay more attention to information that comes through our flesh than to that that comes directly to our spirit. We are sensual insofar as we delight more in the pleasures of the flesh and of the world than we delight in doing good. We are devilish insofar as we would rather yield to the temptations of Satan and be selfish than perform the sacrifices necessary to do good for others. Such a natural man tends to continue in his inertial path of choosing first good and then evil, as he pleases, until he is jarred out of his complacency by a divine witness. The witness is that to become righteous, he must repent of choosing evil and accept the godly order of choosing good. Those who accept that jarring are the honest in heart. Those who will not accept the jarring harden their hearts by that rejection, moving themselves further from righteousness.

The honest in heart who hear the restored gospel are taught that Father is Man of Holiness, who cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance. They are also taught that Father so loved his children of this world that he gave his Only Begotten Son as a sacrifice so that every human soul might be redeemed both from the effects of the fall of Adam and from the effects of his own sins and weaknesses. They are taught that because of the Fall, man's nature is to be evil continually and that only through striving to accept the merits and mercy of the Son of God can any human be rescued from being and doing evil.

Salvation

The rescue process is called salvation. To be saved is to be placed beyond the power of one's enemies. The great enemy of each human being is himself, for in our weakness and selfishness we are and do evil. We as individuals or as collective humanity cannot help ourselves or each other fully to overcome weakness or selfishness. That overcoming is possible only if we fully cooperate with Jesus Christ in fulfilling Father's plan of salvation. That cooperation enables each human being also to become a person of holiness, which is to be completely righteous, perfect in good, even as the Father is, even as the Son is.

Such salvation comes only by covenant with God, never by accident or by natural or human process. Man must first understand and then desire the proffered transformation of his own eternal nature when it is proffered. Before it is too late, man must cooperate with Christ to the fullest extent of his considerable human powers to do better, and he must then fully submit to the incomparable divine power of Jesus Christ to create for him and of him a new creature, remade in every aspect of being. Thus human beings may become good and gods.

There are two covenants whereby a human being may attain complete good and thus become an exalted being as God is. These two covenants were established by Father in the beginning for the salvation of his children. The first of Father's covenants is a covenant of justice; the second is called the new and everlasting covenant and is a covenant of mercy.

The First Covenant

The first covenant, the covenant of justice, was discussed in the council of the gods held before this world was, as is recorded in the book of Abraham: "God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

"And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

"And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;

"And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever." (Abraham 3:23-26; italics added.)

The conditions of the first covenant, the covenant of justice, were these:

1. Father would give his children instruction and commandments.

2. Any child who would believe Father and obey his every commandment, without exception, would in that obedience grow to attain and maintain all the good that Father is and does, which is exaltation.

3. Any child who disobeyed any single commandment of Father, would, without exception, immediately die spiritually, which spiritual death is to be cut off from Father's presence, no longer to be able to grow in his order of good.

4. For every transgression of a commandment of Father, the offender must suffer for that sin and make full restitution for that sin, this suffering and restitution being at least equal to the suffering and loss caused to the person(s) against whom the transgression was committed.

It is possible that the covenant of justice, or the first covenant, is the order of heaven spoken of in the Lord's prayer. If so, it would have been the abrogation of that covenant by which the third of the hosts of heaven fell in the premortal war in heaven. That speculation aside, it is quite plain that this covenant of justice was understood by Adam in the Garden of Eden, for he was determined to and intended to keep all of Father's commandments.

But Adam transgressed the first covenant, and by so doing he immediately brought upon himself and upon all of his posterity the promised spiritual death. In this condition, if there were no intervention, Adam and his posterity would have been lost and fallen forever. Upon mortal death every soul would have passed fully into the power of Satan, to become angels to Satan forever.

The fall of Adam was necessary. It was necessary because every child of Father needs to be out of Father's presence, to have forgotten the premortal existence, thus to be thrust into a strange world where he would be forced to choose between good and evil according to the desires of his own heart. It is a proving of the heart of each person whereby each person may see for himself whether or not he will choose good over evil and thus be able to stand the opportunity of wielding Father's unlimited knowledge and power. But if the Fall was necessary, so was it necessary to have a means of reclaiming man from the Fall should any man desire to choose good and only good. Father in his goodness and omniscience had already provided before the Fall for a second covenant.

The Second Covenant

The second covenant is a covenant of mercy and is the new and everlasting covenant. It is new because it is the second covenant, and it is everlasting because "Everlasting" is one of the names of him in whose name we must learn to do all things. We make this covenant with the Father, with the Son, and with the Holy Ghost, but we receive all of the blessings of this covenant through the Son, who is Everlasting. Through him and only through him may any fallen creature claim blessings that are everlasting.

The new and everlasting covenant has two basic parts. Part one is the covenant of baptism, being born of water and of the Spirit. The covenant of baptism is our pledge to seek after good and to eliminate all choosing and doing of evil in our lives, and it is also our receiving the power to keep that promise. Part two of the new and everlasting covenant is the oath and covenant of the priesthood. The work of part two is to receive the power and authority of God and to become perfect in using that power and authority to minister to other beings to bring about their happiness. The intent of both of these parts is to enable a human being to lay hold on every good and godly thing in both time and eternity. They enable us to do all that we can do towards our own salvation and also to receive and rely upon the fulness of the grace of God, that we might be fully transformed from the weak, natural creature that we were into one like unto God himself, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.

Please do not mistake: we here consider parts one and two of the covenant as separate only because it helps us to see the whole better by analysis. Analysis reveals distinctions, but these distinctions are artificial and illustrative only. The new and everlasting covenant is one living whole; the two parts intertwine and enable each other in every way, even as the intertwining of body and spirit make the living, acting, breathing human soul, indissoluble in function but separable in understanding.

The formal nature of part one of the new and everlasting covenant is initiated in the covenant of baptism and is progressively renewed and strengthened in partaking of the symbols of the flesh and blood of our Savior in the sacrament. Part two of the new and everlasting covenant is initiated by ordination and is enlarged by the ordinances of the temple.

Baptism

The light of Christ is given to every man who comes into the world, that he may know the good, as opposed to the many varieties of evil that are promoted by Satan in this world. The essence of human living is to make many choices between good and evil each day.

We choose so that we can demonstrate what we really desire. If we desire the good, we show that our nature is compatible with Father's and that we would enjoy doing the work of righteousness in time and eternity. If we desire evil, we show that we cannot be trusted with any great power, for we would tend to use it for our personal advantage rather than for the great work of righteousness in which all of the gods participate.

Every soul who comes to accountability is thus forced to wrestle with good and evil and to make choices. He who chooses good will discover that he also chooses evil, for all of us sin and go out of the way. To every sinner there eventually comes a new light, the Holy Ghost. This new light bears witness of Jesus Christ and tells him that if he will put his trust in Christ, Christ will become his Savior and help him to stop choosing evil. Those who desire to stop choosing and doing evil find this message most enticing, so much so that they are willing to try the experiment to see if the promise is true.

Each soul is instructed that if he wishes to try the experiment, he must believe and trust in the Son of God and begin to eliminate each evil thing from his life. These steps are called faith and repentance. The promised consequence of taking these two steps is that the Holy Spirit, which guides and enables these two steps, will then come in even greater abundance and will reward the experimenter with increased understanding and power to have even more faith and to repent of more sins. If the experimenter is pleased with that result, then a new proposal is made to the experimenter: Would you be willing to enter into a covenant with God that would enable you to have full faith in Jesus Christ, to strengthen your repentance by enabling you to have the constant companionship of the Holy Spirit? Those who accept this message are given the opportunity to enter into the new and everlasting covenant by being baptized.

The candidate for baptism must promise three things:

1. The recipient must be willing to take upon himself the name of Jesus Christ. Taking the name of the Savior begins in the waters of baptism whereby we accept Jesus Christ as our new spiritual father and are willing to be known as his children before all people at all times and in all places. But it is also an expression of the willingness to take upon us all of the names of Jesus Christ, even until we receive a fulness of what he is and has. This willingness then is the willingness to go on to receive the second part of the new and everlasting covenant, which is to receive the oath and covenant of the holy priesthood.

2. The covenanter additionally promises always to remember his new father, Jesus Christ. This promise seems to mean to think upon him, yearn for him, pray continually in his name, be anxious for the success of his great work of salvation among the children of men.

3. The recipient of the covenant of baptism must also affirm his willingness to abide and obey every instruction that his new father will give to him. Only in so doing can the covenanter come to avoid choosing and doing evil, for righteousness in this world is only of Christ, he being the sole fountain of this rare reality.

This requirement of total obedience of the second covenant is much like the requirement of total obedience of the first covenant; indeed, it is identical with it. There is a difference in that in the second covenant there is the possibility of salvation and exaltation, even if the promise of obedience is not entirely kept at first. That is to say, there is provision for salvation, even if one is weak and sins after taking the covenant. But the covenant also provides that the covenanter cannot suppose that the provision for sinning will allow him an escape forever; the escape is strictly temporary, and while yet in mortality the person must learn firmly and determinedly to keep this promise to obey fully and faithfully every single instruction the Savior gives him, without error or omission, which means a complete cessation of sinning.

The immediate reward to the covenanter for making these three promises of the covenant of baptism is that hands are then laid upon the person's head, he is blessed with the right to the constant companionship of the Holy Spirit, and he is commanded to receive that companionship unto himself. Only with the help received through that constant companionship can any individual keep the promises made in the waters of baptism. And only by the covenanter's keeping the promises he made will the Holy Spirit remain with him. If one willfully disobeys the promptings to do good which the Holy Spirit brings, one is no longer entitled to nor can stand the continuing presence of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit then mercifully departs.

Receiving the constant companionship of the Holy Spirit is the baptism of fire which normally follows the baptism of water and is the occasion for the person receiving a remission of the penalty due for the sins which he has previously committed but has now repented of. The presence of the Holy Spirit then enables the person to go forth in the knowledge and power of God on the straight and narrow path of righteousness. As long as the person is obedient to the Savior's instructions as received through the Holy Spirit, he will retain that forgiveness of sins and will enjoy the continued blessed presence of that companionship. Willful disobedience, however, brings a loss of both.

By receiving the baptism of water and of fire, the covenanter has now entered upon the strait and narrow path that leads to the end, which is eternal life. But he is by no means there yet. What he has gained is a fighting opportunity to win the battle between good and evil in his life. If he will do all he can to keep the covenant of baptism, surely and firmly evil will be eliminated from his life, replaced in every particular by the righteousness of God. Thus the person triumphs over worldliness and evil in his own person. Until this triumph of good over evil is an accomplished fact in his life, little can be done with the second part of the new and everlasting covenant.

The Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood

As the first part of the new and everlasting covenant focuses on the triumph of the covenanter in the battle to replace evil with good in all things, so the focus of the second part, the oath and covenant of the holy priesthood, focuses on the training of the individual to function for good in the power of the Holy Priesthood of the Son of God and to use that power correctly and advantageously in the callings of God to promote the eternal work of righteousness. The challenge of receiving the holy priesthood is this: Now that you have shown that you can overcome evil for yourself, let us see if you can go further, to wield the power of God, in righteousness, to help others to overcome evil.

There are three stages by which one takes upon himself the oath and covenant of the holy priesthood and receives the power and authority of the Son of God. The first stage is to receive the priesthood, which one does by receiving ordination, being set apart to a calling, and by functioning faithfully in that calling under the guidance and instruction of the Holy Spirit. Those who thus function carry out the mind and the will of God. If they do this faithfully, they will be given progressively greater power and responsibility in their stewardships, but this does not necessarily mean church position. To receive the priesthood does mean that one fully accepts the priesthood authority of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and that one will be subject to those who preside over him in that priesthood.

The second stage of receiving the oath and covenant of the holy priesthood is to receive one's personal endowment in the holy temple of God. First, the endowment consists of special blessings that are given to the person so that he can bear the power of God in this world without being destroyed by the abundant evil that will confront and oppose his labors to do the work of God in the power of God. Second, the endowment is a set of instructions and understandings that assist the person to understand mortality and his role therein. Third, the endowment involves covenants that the person makes, special promises to bear the burden of the work of the Lord in righteousness and purity. These promises are covenants of the oath and covenant of the priesthood. The oath is action taken by God, who cannot lie nor sin in any way. Men, who can and do sin and lie, make covenants with God that they might escape sinning altogether and wield the power of God in righteousness, and they do this altogether for the glory of God, as part of their worship of him for his goodness, for his righteousness.

The third part of the oath and covenant of the holy priesthood is to receive the covenant of marriage in the temple. This is God's marriage, eternal marriage, the establishment of a new eternal kingdom in the pattern of godliness, to do the supreme work of godliness eternally. Blessings are bestowed, covenants are made, and power and authority to act in the priesthood roles of husband and wife, father and mother, are given.

To receive the oath and covenant of the Holy Priesthood of the Son of God is to affirm a desire to take one's place in the divine order of righteousness. To be received into that order is, as it were, to be brought into a harness. The harness is a great eternal set of bindings that link husbands to wives, parents to children, men to God. To be worthy of the harness, one must pull one's assigned weight in one's assigned priesthood labors to further the eternal work of righteousness using the gifts and powers of God. One enters that place in the harness by free will, accepts the burden of the position by free will, and endures to the end by free will. The harness is not imposed upon anyone against his desires. Rather it is gained only by much pleading and repentance and is fulfilled only in sacrifice and obedience. It is true that the outward forms of the priesthood are seemingly imposed upon some in their ignorance, unwillingness, or disobedience; but such an imposition is but a temporary thing of this world. Unless they repent, such persons have no power to bind or to act for God in this world, nor have they any claim on the power of God for the next world.

The net sum of the new and everlasting covenant is that it is the power by which a human being learns to love God with all of his heart, might, mind, and strength and to establish God's righteousness here on earth. This is another way of saying that we are thereby enabled to love our Savior and our neighbor in exactly the same manner in which our Savior loves us. The work of the Aaronic Priesthood is to set into the godly order of righteousness affairs that pertain to the subduing of the earth and civil governing. The work of the Melchizedek Priesthood is to promote the spiritual welfare of souls through missionary work, genealogy and temple work, and the perfecting of the Saints unto the establishment of Zion. The highest focus of the Melchizedek Priesthood is the perfecting of the bonds of love between a husband and wife that binds them to the Savior and their children to them in the drawing power of that perfect love which we can receive only from our Savior and only as we abide the promises we make in the new and everlasting covenant.

The Atonement of Jesus Christ

Hitherto we have concentrated almost solely on what human beings need to do to fulfill their opportunities and responsibilities in the new and everlasting covenant. I wish now to turn our attention to our Savior's role in this grand pattern of salvation for mankind. We have been discussing the necessary human 1 percent of the work of the covenant. Now we turn to the divine 99 percent, the grace of God whereby we are saved. We are and can be saved by that 99 percent only if and as we fully do our 1 percent. I turn now to the atonement of Jesus Christ.

When we examine the etymological roots of the word atonement, we find that in Old English there was a regular expression used to say that people became "at one." This was sometimes spelled as two words, sometimes as one. The concept was a bringing together, an arranging of agreement, a uniting of hitherto estranged parties. The process by which this uniting was achieved was in English appropriately denominated "at-one-ment." When a word was desired to express what our Savior accomplishes in our behalf, no better word could be found than the word "at-one-ment," which we have come to pronounce atonement. This English word is the translation of the Hebrew kaphar, which means, among other things, to cover, and the Greek word katallag, which means to change in an intensive way and also to reconcile. The Savior's atonement does cover our sins, and change our nature, and reconcile us to the Father.

My understanding is that our Savior's atonement is the general descriptive term that covers all of his labors to exalt mankind from the moment he said, "Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever," to the great and last day when he will present his children spotless before Father for Father's acceptation unto exaltation. As it is the task of men to learn to love God with all their heart, might, mind, and strength, so we can see that it is the task of our Savior's atonement to enable men to love God with all their heart, might, mind, and strength. We will describe the atonement in these four aspects.

Justification

The process by which our Savior enables men to love God with all of their minds is termed in the scriptures "justification." Our Savior helps us to become just, which is to say righteous, by teaching us the truth we need to understand about God, about righteousness, about ourselves, and about the nature of our mortal probation. That teaching is essentially accomplished through the teaching and preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ. This gospel was given to our father Adam and will be yet taught to every child of Adam. Jesus Christ is the truth, and only in truth can man act correctly to be saved. Thus our Savior has worked since the beginning to make sure that every human person has access to enough truth to take advantage of the opportunity to be ennobled in righteousness, to be redeemed from the fall of Adam, and to be reunited with Father.

But truth of itself does not fulfill righteousness. The understanding of what is must be supplemented by correct principles that tell us what ought to be and by specific instructions about how to implement those correct principles within the framework of the true reality that has been revealed. Thus our Savior also reveals correct principles and specific directions as to how to act wisely for righteousness. These principles and directions are called in the scriptures "light," and together with truth, they constitute intelligence, or the glory of God. Enabling his children to have his light and truth as the basis of all of their understanding, choosing, and acting is the purpose of the Savior's process of justification of his children, thus to assist each of them to become just beings. This mission of justification of his children the Savior does largely through his agent, the Holy Ghost. The receiving of the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost is the means by which our new father, Jesus Christ, teaches each of his children to walk in light and truth, giving each of us line upon line and precept upon precept until that great day when, through complete faith in him, each of his children is glorified in light and truth, even as he, our Savior, has been so glorified by his Father.

In behalf of justification, the prophets have labored in each dispensation to explain to men the basic outlines of truth and righteousness and have hoped that men would rejoice in those outlines, desire to become more righteous, and enter into the new and everlasting covenant to receive a fulness of righteousness. In behalf of justification, the scriptures have been written that men might better understand the witness of past generations and see that God and righteousness are the same today, yesterday, and always. The scriptural epitome of what it means to be just, to have received the justification of Christ, is given in the Sermon on the Mount. The Book of Mormon is the scripture that lays out justification both as a process and a product with greatest clarity. The scriptures testify that justification through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is indeed just and true.

Purification

As the new children of Christ bask in the light and truth of our Savior's power of justification, it gradually dawns on each of us that to pour light and truth into the human vessel is not enough. As a child of Christ attempts to love the light and truth that come to him by his new father's gift, each becomes aware of an alarming fact: having light and truth is no guarantee of being able to do what is right. Sometimes we know full well what our Savior would have us do, but we yet deliberately do that which is evil because we want to. If a person has indeed begun to love God and his neighbor, this revelation of the impurity of one's own heart is horrifying. It means that at any time one is able to and apt to kick over the traces of the priesthood harness and consort with the evil powers in this world to gain some short-term personal advantage. It is this realization that makes even the prophets to weep and to mourn because of their iniquities and weaknesses.

Providentially, the Savior has a cure for this malady of heart, this willingness to choose evil over good. The Savior's cure is denominated in the scriptures as "purification." Being the Lord God Omnipotent, the creator of heaven and earth and all things that in them are, being fully invested with the power of Father, our Savior can reach into our bosom and give each of us a new heart, a pure heart. He tells us that he will not do that merely upon some incidental request but only after we have done literally all we can do to repent and conform to the standards of godliness with the powers and opportunities he has already given to us. If we have repented of every sin we can repent of, have made fourfold restitution as far as we are able, and have been reconciled to our brother, we may present ourselves at the altar with a broken heart and a contrite spirit and plead in mighty prayer for this change of heart. Then and only then will our Savior reach in and give us a new heart.

The new heart will be a pure heart, one that has no selfish desires, one that is willing to do the right thing. It will choose to do the will of God at all times and places, no matter what the opposition or the sacrifice involved. This new heart is made in the image of that of Jesus Christ, that same heart that enabled our Savior to say, "Father, not my will, but thine be done," that same heart that enabled him to live a sinless life, that same heart for which he was chosen to be the Firstborn and to be the Only Begotten.

To be purified is to become literally a new creature in Christ, to die as to the old person that we were, literally to become of the heart and mind of our new father. The scriptures promise great rewards for those who qualify and take this step. The scriptural name for this new heart is "charity." Charity is to have a heart that loves with the pure love of Christ. Without that charity, we are literally nothing. Thus is the heart of a person saved. Then becomes possible for the person to be redeemed from the Fall, to see God, and not to need to be further protected from the tree of life by those helpful cherubim.

Resurrection

The strength of the mortal tabernacles of men was rendered temporary and relatively impotent by the fall of their mortal father, Adam. This fallen and mortal state of man's body is a blessing because, being temporary, it does not have to be endured forever. Pain, illness, hunger, aging, and other kinds of physical distress are able to serve their useful, temporary purpose in educating and strengthening the spiritual aspect of individuals while allowing an anticipated surcease.

Permanent physical death would not be an improvement. Were mortal death to be the end of being tabernacled in flesh, every human would be at a serious disadvantage, because only when one is clothed in flesh can there be a fulness of joy. Because of the circumstances in which Adam fell, he became subject to Satan, and that subjection would have been complete and final had not the Savior a most important part to play relative to our physical tabernacles.

Our Savior is God for every living creature, for he created all of us physically and is charged with fostering our eternal welfare. All the while that he is offering truth and righteousness for our minds and hearts through the light of Christ and through the covenant processes of justification and purification, he is also entirely mindful of the physical circumstances of each being on earth. Not a sparrow nor a hair of our heads falls to earth unnoticed by him.

For his eternal purposes our Savior suffers to transpire much that we humans call evil. But he also prevents much evil from occurring and transmutes all of what evil he does allow into the possibility of becoming a blessing. For that behind-the-scenes love for us he gets precious little credit. But he gives that love in spite of the unknowing and selfish complaining of his reluctant charges.

Persons of the world pay a good deal of attention to creature comforts. In fact, some spend most of their time in acquiring, comparing, and consuming the delights of the flesh. Worldly wisdom has it that a pleasure in hand is worth two hundred in the heavenly bush. Worldly wisdom also has it that the end justifies the means in acquiring said carnal delights, especially when taken at the expense of one's enemies.

But for his faithful covenant children, those who have hearkened to the spiritual call to truth and righteousness, the Savior recommends sacrifice and selective denial of the flesh. Those of his children who are faithful to his recommendations then receive special physical blessings through the power of his holy priesthood and his Holy Spirit, so that illness, accident, genetic disorders, and death take no more than their exact allotted toll. As is appropriate in his wisdom, his faithful servants are renewed in the flesh, so that their earthly mission cannot be shortened by natural processes. He intervenes when appropriate when their enemies would destroy them. And when the time does come for the beneficial suffering of death, his faithful children are accompanied at each step by his Holy Spirit and foreknow his will in these matters. They know that they are not left alone.

When they do die as to the flesh, it is our Savior who welcomes them to the eternal worlds and assigns them to new labors in his order of priesthood. He ministers salvation in the spirit world through them, even as he does on earth, that all former mortals might know of and partake of the gifts he has to give.

When our Savior took upon himself the role of Messiah, descending below all things to become flesh and blood on this earth and in this fallen world, he brought with him a special advantage. Being born of and fully empowered by an immortal Father, he had the power to choose not to die and also the power to raise himself from the dead should he choose to die. Being born of a mortal mother, he inherited the power to die. Not needing to die, he voluntarily gave up his possibly unending mortal life and all he could have accomplished in that sojourn for a greater purpose. By dying voluntarily he performed the sacrifice of the Atonement, and by that sacrifice seized the keys of death and hell from Satan, who had gained them in the Fall, and thus prepared the way for the resurrection of all mankind.

Thus, after all, probation has been extended, after each human creature has chosen the law by which he desires to be governed, after all things are set in order and there is no further need of the special change known as repentance, then our Savior extends the opportunity of resurrection to each human being through his priesthood order. Every soul will receive again a tabernacle of flesh and bone, nevermore to die. His righteous children receive a tabernacle of his own order, a celestial body, having the same powers that he inherited from his Father in becoming the Only Begotten. Thus our Savior draws us into the same order of flesh and bone as that which he and Father enjoy. Thus in one more way we may become one with Father through the atonement of Jesus Christ.

Sanctification

Coming into this world already just and pure, our Savior was able to live in mortality without sinning. This astounding achievement was not automatic. He knew full well that he had the power to sin, and he could easily have stepped off the path in either direction at any time. But because he loved Father with all of his heart, might, mind, and strength, he refused to sin. In that love he also loved us, his neighbors, with that same pure love with which Father loves him. Thus our Savior was the perfect model of righteousness, truly our total exemplar.

By not sinning even once our Savior demonstrated that he was indeed the Son of God. Not only did he show us the way, the truth, and the life, but he also made it possible by his sinlessness to suffer for our sins, which is the fourth and final aspect of his atonement.

The need for the suffering of the Atonement came from the nature of human sin. Sin is transgression of the law of God. The law of God is not arbitrary but is established upon eternal principles of righteousness. That righteousness, by way of justice, demands that when one being hurts another without cause and permission, that hurt must be matched by a similar suffering on the part of the perpetrator of the injury. Not only that, but restitution must be made so that the injured person is at least as well off after the injury as he was before the injury. Only as both of these conditions—suffering and restitution—are fully satisfied can any sinner stand blameless before Father and endure his presence.

Having given men the opportunity to sin after having created them, our Savior also provided that the individual might not be eternally damned for having sinned if he were truly sorry. The appropriate measure of sorrow is that the sinner confess the sin, forsake sinning completely by turning to do only the Savior's will, and make whatever partial restitution he can, which is repentance. Repentance indeed removes sinning, thus sparing the one-time sinner from further jeopardy, but repentance does not absolve the former sinner of the debt previously incurred. Only our Savior can make a sufficient suffering and restitution to render the sinner clean enough that that person could ever again live with Father.

So when an individual has done all he can to repent of sinning and to make restitution for his sins through partaking of the new and everlasting covenant, our Savior then assumes responsibility for the remainder of the obligation, saving men by his grace, but only after they have done all they can do. The restitution he does through his role as Jehovah, the Father of heaven and earth, he who is able to reach into eternity and remove the everlasting eddies of the sins that men commit. He is able to stop the otherwise inexorable eternal consequences whereby evil is propagated through time and space by cause and effect. Thus he is able to leave each resurrected being in a condition in which he suffers no eternal consequence for any evil done to him in mortality by any other mortal. Thus our Savior satisfies part of the demands of justice. It yet remained for him to suffer for the sins of all mankind, those sins past, present, and future to his mortal sojourn.

The occasion of the suffering of the Atonement was but one day of his life, the final day of his mortality. In Gethsemane and through the time on the cross, our Savior trod the winepress alone, suffering the debt of sin, suffering a total suffering equal to all of the sinning that ever had or ever would be done. Having paid the debt of sinning for the sins of all men, he can invite all of us to come to him and to learn of his ways and to partake of his forgiveness.

Through his suffering our Savior made it possible for men not to need to suffer for their own sins, and thus he also made it possible for them to be acceptable again to Father. Our Savior offers to all men the cleansing of their might, that their power and priesthood in time and eternity might not need to be shortened because of blood and sin. He cleanses their garments, their power, that he then might make them perfect, complete, in all good things, even as Father is. Thus his divine restitution and suffering constitute a great work of atonement, enabling men to be one with Father in might, thus enabling men to share all that Father and he have.

Conclusions

Human beings are saved by the grace of Christ, but only after each does all he can do to perfect, purify, and ennoble himself. The saving grace of Christ is his new and everlasting covenant and his power of atonement, which are made possible by his righteousness and perfect faith in his Father.

Thus human beings may be saved only by binding themselves to Christ. It is as if our task were to stand straight and tall before Father, but because of the Fall, we are broken and twisted. The Savior is our straight and tall splint. If we bind ourselves to him, wrap strong covenants around us and him that progressively draw us up into his form and nature, then we can become righteous as he is and can be saved. But without him we are nothing.

Thus "the righteous" spoken of in the scriptures are not human beings who are or can become righteous by themselves. The righteous are only those who have bound themselves to Jesus Christ by the promises of the new and everlasting covenant and who then keep those promises. Only in him and by him are they able to do any good thing. The righteous acts they do are not strictly their own acts; therefore they take no credit for them. Rather do they give the glory to God. They know that their righteous acts are acts of Christ, chosen by the pure heart given by Christ, understood by the just mind given by Christ, carried out by the new strength given by Christ, redounding to the blessing of others in the priesthood might of Christ. Thus in Christ the righteous move, and live, and have their being.

If a human being endures to the end in the new and everlasting covenant, until he is literally transformed into the stature of Christ in heart, might, mind, and strength, then he may love God with all of his heart, might, mind, and strength. And if he then endures to the end of mortal life in that same condition, unfailingly enacting that same love, that new nature will become his eternal nature. He becomes one with God, part of God, also to work for the immortality and eternal life of man forever, as gods.

Thus the purpose of the new and everlasting covenant is to provide a means whereby every human being may come to be able to fulfill the first covenant, to do all things whatsoever their God commands them. But the first covenant cannot be fulfilled by one who has sinned. Therefore it is only through living vicariously in Christ that any mortal fulfills the first covenant and thereby is enabled to become exalted. Thus Christ wrought eternal life for us in love by satisfying justice for us vicariously. He extends mercy to all who will learn to love until their love can satisfy the demands of Father's justice. The new and everlasting covenant is our detour whereby our Savior strengthens us until we can tread the narrow way of justice and mercy on our own.

Thus the new and everlasting covenant is a special case of the first covenant, that which enables sinners to yet claim the blessing of exaltation in eternity, even though they themselves, by themselves, do not merit such blessings and are at first unable to receive such blessings. Only in and through Christ may they inherit, through his worthiness.

Our Savior kept the first covenant and was exalted by it. Had he sinned, there could have been no one to at-one him with Father. Because of his faithfulness in the first covenant, the second, or new and everlasting, covenant was made possible, that all of us may share his blessings with him for all eternity.

FeedBack from my Everlasting Question

2007-02-25T22:51:00.000Z

Infinite Intelligences?

In D&C 93:29 reads: "Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be."

Since you can't create intelligences that implies there is a finite amount of them. However if this were true then at some point all intelligences would have received a spiritual/physical body and the promise of an eternal increase would not be valid.

Can anyone give any insight into how there can be an infinite amount of intelligences whilst at the same time no new intelligences being created?

Comments:

#1 Comment from: Gary [Visitor] · http://ndbf.blogspot.com

“Many have tried to penetrate to the First Cause of all things; but it would be as easy for an ant to number the grains of sand on the earth. It is not for man, with his limited intelligence, to grasp eternity in his comprehension.... It would be as easy for a gnat to trace the history of man back to his origin as for man to fathom the First Cause of all things.” (Discourses of Brigham Young, 25.)

#2 Comment from: Gary [Visitor] · http://ndbf.blogspot.com

Mortal man cannot comprehend things like infinity and eternity. But that doesn't mean they don't exist.

“The answer is that there has been and there now exists an endless line of Gods [and intelligences], stretching back into the eternities, that had no beginning and will have no end. Their existence runs parallel with endless duration, and their dominions are as limitless as boundless space.” (B. H. Roberts, New Witnesses For God, 1:466-467.)

“As to the beginning of the universe, that ... may be dismissed by saying that it had no beginning.” (B. H. Roberts, The Gospel and Man's Relationship to Deity, 284.) So much for the Big Bang.

“Many have tried to penetrate to the First Cause of all things [or, in this case, infinite intelligences]; but it would be as easy for an ant to number the grains of sand on the earth. It is not for man, with his limited intelligence, to grasp eternity in his comprehension.... It would be as easy for a gnat to trace the history of man back to his origin as for man to fathom the First Cause of all things.” (Discourses of Brigham Young, 25.)

#3 Comment from: Frank McIntyre [Visitor] · http://timesandseasons.org

"Since you can't create intelligences that implies there is a finite amount of them."

I don't see why this follows. We may well have just started with an uncountable number. That's hard to grasp, but then, infinite is always hard to grasp.

#4 Comment from: J. Stapley [Visitor] · http://www.splendidsun.com

I agree with what Frank stated, however, I think it is quite important to note that this, likely, does not refere to intelligences qua the mind. This revelation was given in 1833, and was well before the development of our pre-existance doctrine. I would recomend Ostler's paper in Dialogue on the development of the doctrine.

#5 Comment from: Geoff Johnston [Visitor] · http://www.newcoolthang.com

Since you can't create intelligences that implies there is a finite amount of them.

One of the unsettled questions is what "Intelligences" can be reduced to: Are they eternal as "whole cloth" intelligences or are they reducible to smaller parts (possibly something like the "particles of intelligence" Orson Pratt speculated about). If Pratt's atomism model is more accurate then perhaps "Intelligences" can be organized out of uncreated "intelligence". That would at least mean that the number of Intelligences (aka spirits) is still undefined. (Though even in that model, if there is a finite amount of intelligence-stuff then there necessarily is a finite number of intelligences that can be organized from it.)

Also, there are lots of ideas about God. BH Roberts preferred the "infinite regress of Gods" idea as illustrated by the quote Gary gave but others have preferred other models.

#6 Comment from: Gilgamesh [Visitor]

I have wondered about this as well. There is an anti-argument that uses the number of limited intelligences as proof that eternmal progression cannot be eternal if we will, one day, no longer be able to fulfil our "work and glory" because the intelligences have run out.

I have wondered about the eternal regression argument. Perhaps those that regress back to their base particles, may be the seeds of new intelligences spawned from those base particles that were not intelligences. Kind of like a magnet that can spread magnetism to metal that is in long term contacts, maybe we spread intelligence to non-intelligent matter by making it part of us -eating, etc... and for those that are damned to regressions, when their "individual" intelligence is reduced to its basis form, the additional material that made up that being retains the seeds of intelligence and can enter into the progression cycle with a fresh, innocent and clean start.

#7 Comment from: David J [Visitor]

Guys, the D&C reference is fragmented. Joseph's full exposition of this concept is in the KFD. I'll post the relevant portions here. All page numbers listed are from Ehat & Cook's Words of Joseph Smith:

Spirits:
God never had power to create the spirit of man (341)

I am dwelling on the immutibility of the spirit of man, is it logic to say the spirit of man had a beginning & yet had no end, it does not have a begining & yet had no end, it does not have a begining or end, my ring is like the Exhistanc of man it has no begining or end, if cut into their would be a begining & end, so with man if it had a begining it will have an end, if I am right I might say God never had power to create the spirit of man (346)

their Spirits coexisted with God (352)

God never had power to create the Sp of Man at all (352)

their spirits existed coequal with God (359)

God never did have power to create the spirit of man at all. (360)

Intelligences:

Inteligence exist upon a self existent principle no creation about it. (341)

Intelligence is Eternal & it is self exhisting (346)

Mind

Mind of man coequal with God himself. (341)

the mind of man is as immortal as God himself (352)

The mind of manâ€”the intelligent part is coequal with God himself. (359)

First Principles

the first principles of man are self exist with God (352)

Spirit = Mind

all mind & spirit God ever sent into the world are susceptible of enlargement. (341)

man exhisted in spirit & mind coequal with God himself (346)

I take ring from my finger and liken it unto the mind of man, the im[mor]t. Sp. Bec. It has no beging. Suppose you cut it into but as the D[evil] livees there wod. be an end all the fools & wise men from the beging. of creation who say that man had begin (352)

Mind = Intelligence

All mind that is susseptible of improvement, the relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. God has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences that they may be exhalted with himself (346)

Soul = Spirit

the soul the in[ne]r Spiritâ€”of God man says created in the beging. The very idea lessens man in my ideaâ€”I don't bel. The doct (351)

Intelligence = Spirit

intelligence is self existent it is a sp. from age to end & there is no creatn abt. it (352)

Intelligence exists upon a selfexistent principle--is a spirit from age to age & no creation about it (360)

Soul = Mind

the soul --the mind of man--they say God created it in the beginning. The idea lessens man in my estimation. Don't believe the doctrine--know better--God told me so (359)

So for JS, a spirit is synonymous with an intelligence. They are one in the same thing, and are not created or made, neither indeed can be. So that would imply then, that we are all just as "old" as God, and that he doesn't have power to create the spirit of man at all. Abraham 3:18 reads quite well with this understanding.

I've heard individuals in Church who these views here, and mix them with the common (via Orson Pratt) view of spiritual atomism to create a mixed view of spirit origins. The Church has never really picked up on this because the KFD wasn't readily available until years, even decades, after it was transcribed. Moreover, the vast majority of the apostleship were gone on missions when JS gave this discourse, and so naturally none of them were there to hear it. JS himself indicates that the content of the eulogy was new; but he did preempt the speech by telling some of his close associates that he was going to throw it all down in a big way. Anyway, the apostles were called back to Nauvoo upon JS's death, and so they may have never heard it "from the horse's mouth," so to speak. Likewise, they didn't have doctrinal concerns upon their return, per se, because of the Syndey Rigdon and church leadership problems. At least that's my theory about why the Church has a "spirit birth" doctrine (which creates the problems listed above in this post, problems with theodicy, problems with determinism, and problems with the Fall/Redemption).

#8 Comment from: Clark Goble [Member]

David, while I certainly agree that Joseph thought spirit and intelligence overlapped, I'm not sure that invalidates the various tripartite views of soul - whether the B. H. Roberts view, the Orson Pratt view or others. I remain convinced that elements of it can be seen in early thought. But clearly there is a lot of ambiguity in the early texts. One wishes that more of what was taught in Navuoo, especially in the quorum of the anointed, had been recorded.

#9 Comment from: Bookslinger [Visitor] · http://indybooks.blogspot.com

Boyd K. Packer said at a CES fireside within the last 2 years that an intelligence is clothed in a spirit body by Heavenly parents somewhat like a spirit is clothed in a physical body by mortal parents.

To tie that in with what JS said, an intelligence is eternal, and the spirit-matter of the spirit body is eternal. But, that particular intelligence wasn't clothed in spirit-matter in the form of a spirit body until being "processed" somehow by heavenly parents. At that point, the intelligence recieved a spirit body, and became the child of those heavenly parents.

Some mockers have ridiculed the concept of exalted females being "eternally pregnant", but we have no doctrine giving the specifics of creating spirit bodies for intelligences. We just don't know how it works.

The Proclamation on the Family is the first official document that I'm aware of since correlation to assert that we have more than one heavenly parent. It specifically says "heavenly parents." Up until the Proclamation on the Family, we could say that the concept of "Mrs. God" was not official doctrine. It could only be inferred based on revelations given to us about our potential eternal destiny, and then extrapolating backward to our Heavenly Father. Now, we can't back off from there being a "Mrs. God."

#10 Comment from: Bookslinger [Visitor]

I concur that we can't comprehend eternity and infinity without being enlightened by God and having the veil withdrawn. Even in the Celestial kingdom, a device (a stone, or Urim/Thummim) will be needed to view kingdoms of a higher order, and the Earth/planet of the Celestial Kingdom will itself be a Urim/Thummim to view kingdoms of a lower order. Perhaps only the exalted ones will have the stone, and the two lower orders will not.

Given statements of ancient and modern prophets, I conclude that Elohim is the god of this universe, and not just the god of this galaxy alone. (I used to think that exalted beings had their own galaxy or group of galaxies in the universe, but now I think that's a limited viewpoint.)

I belive that what we perceive as this universe is not the totality of existance. Cosmologists have started to come to that viewpoint because if a truely infinite number of stars/galaxies have existed in this universe for a truely infinite amount of time in the past, then the night sky would be solid with stars. There would be a star/galaxy in every possible direction, and its light would have reached us given an infinite time period to get here.

As I understand it, Stephen Hawking postulated that there is a multiverse, like an infinite plane, consisting of universes sprouting off of it, but still connected, like balloons being tied to a big piece of cardboard.

I haven't read Hawking's "A Brief History of Time," but I look forward to it. A reviewer says that he mentions God throughout.

#11 Comment from: J. Stapley [Visitor] · http://www.splendidsun.com

I think it is fair to say that Christ is literally our father. This is based in scripture and is explicit. Why could not a similar covenant result in our birth with God the Father as our father?

Plenty of people, like Elder Packer, believe in the tripartite existence. The fact remains that it is not routed in the revelations or the teaching of Joseph Smith. Consequently, it is essentially tradition, though popular and unsubstantiated.

David J, quotes things very important.

But again, I think there is no evidence that the "intelligence" of section 93 refers to our souls.

#12 Comment from: Clark Goble [Member]

The idea of the multiverse was originally raised by the Russian physicist Andrei Linde. But it's become a very popular, if controverial, speculation among physicists. There are variations such as one view in M-Theory where we have multiple lower dimensional brane floating in high dimensional space.

Thus far there's no obvious way to test any of these theories.

#13 Comment from: David J [Visitor]

Boyd K. Packer said at a CES fireside within the last 2 years that an intelligence is clothed in a spirit body by Heavenly parents somewhat like a spirit is clothed in a physical body by mortal parents.

Utter hogwash. Here's the problem with that:

Who started it? Who was the first? And why is THAT being self-existing and eternal, and the others "created or made"? If all beings are "clothed in a spirit body" then there's a serious breakdown in the paradigm -- somebody, way back when, WASN'T like that.

Spirits aren't created or made, like JS said.

#14 Comment from: Clark Goble [Member]

Just to add to the discussion, one thing to keep in mind regarding intelligence is that idealism might be a possibility and an alternative to the two kinds of tripartite views popularized by Pratt and Roberts. I think that Brigham Young often appears to move in that direction at times.

#15 Comment from: El Jefe [Visitor]

I am so glad that on a subject that the Lord has failed to give us a clear understanding, we have a monumental intellectual giant like David J who can classify what the Acting President of The Twelve said as "utter hogwash".

Disagree with him as you wish, but do not place your judgment so far above his that you dismiss his views with contempt.

#16 Comment from: Eric S. [Visitor]

The Proclamation on the Family is the first official document that I'm aware of since correlation to assert that we have more than one heavenly parent. It specifically says "heavenly parents." Up until the Proclamation on the Family, we could say that the concept of "Mrs. God" was not official doctrine. It could only be inferred based on revelations given to us about our potential eternal destiny, and then extrapolating backward to our Heavenly Father. Now, we can't back off from there being a "Mrs. God."

Interesting observation. I wonder exactly where the proclamation fits into the canonical framework of Latter-day Saint scripture. Is it on the level of the Standard Works? If so, should it not be put to the church for a sustaining vote and published with the scriptures? If not, is it considered more or less the equivalent of General Conference addresses (I would think more because it is signed by all 15 of the PSRs)? But then, is it any more authrotative for doctrine than the Hymns? We do have reference to Heavenly Mother in the hymn Oh, My Father. Are the hymns not considered official doctrine? Just wondering.

#17 Comment from: David J [Visitor]

dismiss his views with contempt

No, never, never. His fierce conservatism is really the only thing that urks me, but that's personal, not ecclesiastical. I'm sure he's aware what JS taught and how to understand it, but proliferates the Correlation view to keep people listening and to not change the direction the Church's teachings have gone. It's a lot like the serious D&C 130:22 error -- the text-criticism of that verse shows that there's a big problem as it now reads which varies greatly from the original. This was brought to the attention of the 12 in the early 1980s by an acquaintence of mine when it was discovered, and BRM, who was the contact-person, said they all knew about it, but were not going to change the scripture or the doctrine on that view so that the Church can "keep moving forward." Same with the "floating comma" of D&C 89 and the abstaining of meats in winter. If you're interested in the D&C 131 issue, it's in Lyndon Cook's The Revelations of the Prophet Joseph Smith.

So many of these guys do say things when they know the history indicates otherwise.

The KFD has been enigmatic for the church because of JS's teaching like these, and again, as I indicated above, because the most of the leadership of the church was absent when he gave this speech and never picked up on it.

#18 Comment from: J. Stapley [Visitor] · http://www.splendidsun.com

Is it on the level of the Standard Works?

Absolutely not. I think it has about the same weight as the 1845 Proclaimation to the World.

#19 Comment from: Daylan [Visitor]

Boom! goes my brain...

1) We either had an infinite (1a) number of Gods before our current Heavenly Father or a finite (1b) number of Gods before Him.

2) We either have an infinite (2a) amount of material/space to live in and use or a finite (2b) amount.

3) We either have infinite time (3a) or finite time (3b)

I can't handle "finite Gods" (1b) because that implies that through work and/or luck a non-God became a God. I can't handle "infinite Gods" (1a) because there *HAS* to be a first, right?

Boom!

#20 Comment from: Geoff Johnston [Visitor] · http://www.newcoolthang.com

David J: Spirits aren't created or made, like JS said.

I think you are overconfident in your interpretation of those quotes from Joseph. You seem to feel they unequivocally prove that each of our spirits are uncreated and have always existed in more or less their current form. While that is one way to read the quotes it is not the only way. And there are problems with that reading to begin with -- like for instance what to make of the concept Alma and others taught of the destruction of the soul (and soul meant spirit in that context -- that was long before the later notion of soul = body+spirit came up.)

Joseph did clearly imply that the spirits/minds/Intelligences of "man" have always existed. But that does not necessarily mean that your and my individual spirits have always been -- only that there have always been the Intelligences designated as "man" in existence. Another strong implication in that sermon (KFD) is that God used to have the spirit of a "man"; but now he has the spirit the spirit of a God right? So things clearly do change and God (Our Father -- even this title can mean lots of different things) has not eternally had his current level of intelligence.

I guess I am only objecting to your implication that the quotes you provided serve as conclusive proof of your interpretation of them. They don't.

I'll get around to posting more on this soon. I will defend the atomist/particles idea. It is the only version of eternity I can make sense of.

#21 Comment from: Andermom [Visitor] · http://www.adventuresofnils.blogspot.com

I belive that what we perceive as this universe is not the totality of existance. Cosmologists have started to come to that viewpoint because if a truely infinite number of stars/galaxies have existed in this universe for a truely infinite amount of time in the past, then the night sky would be solid with stars. There would be a star/galaxy in every possible direction, and its light would have reached us given an infinite time period to get here.

This thought experiment only works if the cosmologist accepts that the universe has no beginning. While we as members of the church believe that there is no beginning or end, most cosmologists still accept a variation on the big bang theory, which implies that there is a beginning. A better reason to believe (scientifically) that this universe is not the totality of existence is because the mathematics indicates it. Also belief in a beginning to the universe doesn't preclude a belief in an eternal God that has no beginning. In fact I think it indicates a belief in God, and the model of existence (mulitple universes/planes of existence) that you are endorsing. The argument goes like this "God was and is 'somewhere else' and from that somewhere else he put this universe into motion." This would allow him to exist outside of the confines of time as he so often claims he does. If we really want to get into it we could start discussing the nature of light, and what exatly is meant when God describes himself as a being of light. While studying special relativity I once calculated how fast God would have to be moving in order for one day of his time to be a thousand years of our time. It came out to something 99.99998...% of the speed of light.

Anyhow Douglas Adams had an interesting logic chain from The Restaurant at the End of the Universe that is pretty funny "It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination."

#22 Comment from: J. Stapley [Visitor] · http://www.splendidsun.com

Geoff, I really think that equating book of Mormon/D&C references of soul distruction to is preposterous. It defies the text and Joseph Smith. Moreover, to say the mind of Man is eternal is something that Particle Man cannot abide.

#23 Comment from: David J [Visitor]

Bravo, J. The destruction of the soul, to an ancient Jew, is most likely an aphorism or metaphor for sin.

The idea that the two theories need to be "blended" is, to me, unnecessary. The possibility that subsequent leadership after JS got it wrong is, to me, much more believable then having to work out some theory that reconciles the two. Again, most of them were gone when he discussed this, and too busy dealing with Rigdon when they got back to take note of it.

Furthermore, if spirits are made from something else, then we're tripartite beings, not dual beings, which again is terribly innovative. That is to say, if "intelligence" isn't the same as a spirit, and that an intelligence is "clothed in a spirit body" -- where the heck is any of THAT written down in the early history? People tout it like some immutable and eternal truth, but it just isn't there. I mean, JS in the KFD, Abraham 3, it's all so simple if left untouched. There is no creation of spirits. They just "are." They're not "cut" from anything at all.

Again, as I state above, someone, sometime, way back in the beginnings of all things and times, there HAD to have been a being that is self-existing and eternal, and was not created or made in order to get the ball rolling. Stuff just doesn't make itself randomly. JS clearly states that "man exists upon the same self-existing principle as God." Since God is self-created and unmade, so is man. God's name even implies this when he revealed himself to Moses: 'eyeh asher 'eyeh. The name Yahweh means, according to the TDOT, "self-existing one" (I've also theorized that JS picked up on this doctrine from reading through that passage in Exodus while making the Insp. Ver.). For JS to come along and equate the two makes perfect sense, especially in the same discourse in which he states that God is really just no more than an exalted man. He even takes his ring off to demonstrate (I'm wearing a replica of that ring right now). So all of the atomistic or "spirit sons and daughters" stuff is a late innovation to gospel doctrine, probably in effort to keep up with the widely held views of the universal fatherhood of God theory or something. JS even says that "the idea lessens man in my opinion" for them to be created. He wants to equate God and man, for after all, as he states, God is an exalted man. Both of them are not created or made (Abr. 3:18 again). Coeternal (or, coeval) beings. God and man are just as "old" as each other (but with eternity, one really can't speak of "oldness," but there really is no adequate term to describe it otherwise, hence the use of the terminus tecnicus "the beginning" in Gen. 1, Abr. 3, etc.

Again, the spiritual chicken came before the spiritual egg (if there even is an egg). Somebody had to get the ball rolling at some point, which is where the "spirits are made of something" theory crumbles, which JS attempted to demonstrate with his ring. The language of the KFD is extremely clear and concise.

#24 Comment from: Clark Goble [Member]

David, I think the issue is more whether there is a difference between a 'pure spirit' and a 'spirit body.' It may well be that at this time Joseph simply hadn't developed the terminology yet. Further there is the notion, contemporary with Joseph, in Emerson and others of an oversoul or absolute spirit and then individual souls. This too would be compatible with the notions in the above and would in fact explain how God and man are co-eternal. I'm definitely not saying Joseph adopts a view like Emerson. I am, however, suggesting that things aren't as clear as you suggest. Especially given how later people took it.

#25 Comment from: Bookslinger [Visitor]

I just remembered that all sorts of people read these posts, so let me say that this is all speculation and guessing on my part. These things are not official doctrine of the church, and are not essential to our salvation. I'm just documenting my ideas.

David J: Somebody had to get the ball rolling at some point, ...

I think that's where your argument falls apart. I've read nothing by JS or any subsequent prophet to suggest that. There was no prime cause or being. There is no end nor beginning of gods and man. I think that your above assertion goes against the concept of an eternal (without beginning) past, and against JS's statement that there was no beginning.

The language of the KFD is extremely clear and concise.

The KFD was not canonized, nor officially endorsed by the then current 12, nor endorsed by any subsequent prophet, nor is its transcript "official." I would also challenge your assertion that it is clear and concise. Parts of it are not clear to me.

I have trouble conceptualizing that we had spirit bodies before becoming children of Elohim. We say that Jehovah/Jesus was the first-born of Elohim in the spirit. What then was that pre-mortal spiritual birth ? If we existed with spirit bodies prior to Elohim attaining exaltation, were we all just warehoused somewhere or floating around in unorganized space and then adopted?

We are taught that those who attain to exaltation in the future will have spirit children, and have "continuation of the seed" which implies some type of creation/organization as opposed to adoption. And I don't mean creation of spirit children ex-nihilo. A spirit body is made of spirit matter which cannot be created, but it can be organized.

BKP's phrase of "clothing an intelligence with a spirit body" makes complete sense to me, and does not at all conflict with my reading of the KFD or of sections 76, 132, and the Book of Abraham.

The modern scriptures and JS also give us an additional meaning of the word "eternal." One of those meanings can mean "without beginning", but another meaning is existing outside of time or before the creation/organization of this universe.

But I can conceptualize that "intelligences", units of some sort of light or energy, without spirit bodies, can exist in infinite unending numbers for a never-beginning and never-ending type of eternity, and then a large but finite number of those intelligences can be adopted by an exalted being, or rather an exalted couple, and be spiritually "born" to that exalted couple, obtaining spirit bodies and the ability to move, communicate, grow, etc.

The words "create," "organize" and "born" in reference to the pre-mortal existance just aren't precise enough. We don't know what those actions actually entailed.

I guess I do subscribe to the tripartite concept, if that means that an intelligence is housed in a spirit-body which is then housed in a physical body.

#26 Comment from: Curtis [Visitor]

David, don't forget that Joseph said that which has a beginning must have an end. If there is birth there is death. If there was a creation, there must be an uncreation. If there is an organization to the spirit body, there must be a disorganization. However, if the spirit was not created and has existed forever and ever, we get to keep our spirits forever and ever. If there was a spirit clothing of our intelligence (whatever that might mean) then someday we will be stripped down to an intelligence again.
This is something you and I have talked about a little before. This is David of C&E made sure fame right?

#27 Comment from: David J [Visitor]

I've read nothing by JS or any subsequent prophet to suggest that. There was no prime cause or being. There is no end nor beginning of gods and man. I think that your above assertion goes against the concept of an eternal (without beginning) past, and against JS's statement that there was no beginning.

That's exactly what I'm suggesting--there was no beginning for God and man. My whole point above was a retort of the other side's logic to point out to the folks who think that God has sex and creates spirit offspring (pre-mortal spirit obstetrics) is weird because someone, somewhere way back would have had to self-exist to get the ball rolling in this way, implying that the supreme being wasn't created like we (supposedly) are. JS clearly teaches that there is no beginning or end to God and man. That's what I was pointing out with the KFD quotations. JS thought God and man are eternal and not created or made. So I'm actually in total agreement with you there.

Nor does JS's KFD model jeopardize eternal progression. That one needs to be broken down and ground up into intelligence and then remade into a spirit to look different and then re-introduced to the world isn't necessary for eternal progression. Big deal what a person's spirit looks like. It's the progression of good over evil that is what is important, MMPs or not. The spirit can remain eternally unchanged, and yet experience multiple mortal probations if necessary without dissolution of any sort.

Also, since we know that God has a body of flesh and bones, and that supposedly his wife does too, why aren't they creating flesh and bone people when they procreate up in heaven then? I mean, when God "supposedly" had relations with Mary (I don't believe he did, but the Ezra Benson school does), he sired a flesh and bone being--Jesus. And if Joseph Fielding Smith is correct in saying that God created Adam in the same way that we procreate (Lk. 3:38), we have yet another piece of evidence to suggest a flesh-and-bone offspring issuing from flesh-and-bone parents (father and mother). It would seem, then, that any type of flesh and bone pre-mortal spirit sex, gestation, and birth would also create flesh-and-bone people. IMO, the pre-mortal spirit birth is more loaded with problems than the eternal self-existing spirit model of the KFD.

There's another problem with the "intelligence made into spirits" model, which I think was the prime reason this post started--wouldn't one run out of intelligence at some point, assuming spirits cannot be annihilated or crushed back down into their basic elements? If intelligence is "infinite," how is that not a logical paradox in light of the concept of eternity and eternal creation? If spirits could be reduced to their basic form, how does that then allow for the eternal, perpetual existence of the mind, like Stapley said above? Simple: if spirits are eternal, and "not created or made, neither indeed can be," then there will never be a drought nor surplus because the quotient never changes. The typical answer to this is "well, it's unclear," or "well, we won't know until the millenium" or whatever, but seriously, the language is right there in the sermon. And even if it was revealed in the millenium, wouldn't the answer be something simple to understand, like a type of clarification of sorts? Again, the gospel isn't based on, as one friend put it, cosmic mind-warps of mysteries--if people want that, they can go read the Chalcedonian Creed.

Then you have atonement problems -- if new spirit people are being created (and supposedly going down and sinning in their respective worlds), who's going to atone for the new people? Another savior? But the atonement, in Alma 7 (I think) is "infinite and eternal." However, according to the KFD model, if a spirit is eternal, then, and isn't created or made, and God does not create the spirit of man at all (WJS, p. 341, 352, 360), then only 1 savior and 1 atonement is needed and has "infinite and eternal" application because the number of spirit people is fixed--their souls (spirits) are forever under the umbrella of that singular event because they're just as eternal as the being who performed it (and the one who approved of it -- God).

Then you have problems with theodicy. Since God is making us into spirits, which have moral agency, would he then be ultimately responsible for their errors? The "spirit birth" folks would answer "yes, that's why he provided a savior." This is what theologians would consider a problem of theological ethics. (BTW, ethics is another terminus tecnicus which doesn't have much to do with ethics in other disciplines, like business or what have you). The theological ethic at stake is how is it God can be just when he's the one who creates the problem and then fixes it? That's not theologically ethical. But if you have eternal spirits which aren't created or made, God isn't ultimately responsible for their (inevitable) misdeeds on their respective earths, and provides a savior for them purely out of mercy and love--not because he obliged himself to do so by being the one who created the problem.

The KFD was not canonized, nor officially endorsed by the then current 12, nor endorsed by any subsequent prophet, nor is its transcript "official."

Which is the point I made above by stating that the KFD has been enigmatic to the church. That statement tacitly is evidenced in this thread -- it creates problems for people because it runs against the grain of Correlation. Again, by the time the church really got around to examining it (the Utah era), the Orson Pratt model had been published so widely and accepted so widely by then that this was all "new" to everyone, and hence has never been adopted (let's face it, the Mormon church has issues with going back on its word). Again, most of the 12 were gone when it was given, and had other concerns to deal with upon their return to Nauvoo. It went unnoticed (sadly).

I used to be in the "pre-mortal spirit obstetrics" school until I bought a copy of WJS. Then I swung into the eternal spirit category. Now I'm at a stage where I'm trying my darndest to swing back the other way, or at least empathize with my old self, but if I swing back to the Correlation pre-mortal view, it would be very, very difficult because of the wording of the KFD, which for me is simple. Apparently it presents difficulty for others. That's fine too. I don't understand a lot of Revelation, and yet didn't JS say it was the easiest for him to read, and Nephi say the same thing about Isaiah (IMO, Isaiah's really not that bad so long as the reader doesn't "Christianize" it)? I'm trying, you guys, I really am. I'm an original sources kind of guy, which perhaps is my hang-up here, as I'm terribly reluctant to venture outside of JS for an understanding on this, because to me his words in the KFD are plain. So bear with my arrogance, please. It's just a manifestation of internal struggle and frustration, nothing against you guys. All this haughty-sounding language is just me arguing with myself in search of an understanding of how I used to be and how the majority of the church and Correlation thinks on this.

#28 Comment from: David J [Visitor]

This is David of C&E made sure fame right

Yes.

Curtis Strong? Is that you? Dude! We meet on the blogs! You're the best, man. Your logic above is beautiful and delicious (#26). It makes sense, and is exactly what I think too, except for being stripped down again, because I think JS thought that the spirit is eternal. Dude, email me. We gotta catch up.

Trust me, I love this sermon so much and have read it so many times I even own one of those KFD ring replicas you can buy from Deseretarded book and wear it every day. This sermon just rocks and (for me) clears up so many inconsistencies, paradoxes, and illogical premises and arguments created by the pre-mortal obstetrics viewpoint.

#29 Comment from: Gary [Visitor] · http://ndbf.blogspot.com

Bookslinger ( #10 ), I've posted a lengthy comment about the night sky being solid with stars here.

#30 Comment from: Bookslinger [Visitor]

If there was a spirit clothing of our intelligence (whatever that might mean) then someday we will be stripped down to an intelligence again.

I don't see that as a necessity. After the resurrection, our spirit body will never again be stripped of it's physical body, tangible body and spirit body will be permanently welded together. I can then accept that intelligences were clothed in spirit bodies with a welding that cannot be broken.

Your post #27 gives me plenty to chew on. My head is spinning with the cosmic implications of it all. And I think we still haven't agreed on the nuances of the verbs create and organize.

wouldn't one run out of intelligence at some point, assuming spirits cannot be annihilated or crushed back down into their basic elements?

Tell me if I have this right: you believe that there are an infinite number of pre-mortal spirit beings, personages of spirit, having spirit bodies, waiting to be "adopted" by exalted beings, but you reject the notion of an infinite number of intelligences waiting to be clothed in spirit bodies by exalted beings.

However, according to the KFD model, if a spirit is eternal, then, and isn't created or made, and God does not create the spirit of man at all

JS was also a stickler about the difference between "create" and "organize." To say that the spirit of man was not created could mean that it was not created out of nothingness. I think it leaves open the possibility that the spirit body of man was organized out of eternal spirit matter and used to clothe an eternal intelligence that had no beginning, nor will have an end. You call this "spirit obstetrics", but I say we don't really know it works.

It's only our limited finite minds that demand a true beginning or prime cause. To reconcile what JS said about beginning and ending: what we call beginnings and ends are merely phase/state changes, or starting-points or endpoints of activity periods.

I find it easier to accept that there is an infinite amount of "intelligence" or "intelligences" out there, and an infinite amount of "spirit matter", and an infinite amount of physical matter, all without beginning or end, and all without a "prime cause."

What gods do is put them (intelligence, spirit matter, physical matter) all together, "organizing" things into inanimate objects (rocks, planets), sub-human creatures (animals), and human creatures (man); things to act and things to be acted upon.

#31 Comment from: Geoff Johnston [Visitor] · http://www.newcoolthang.com

David, don't forget that Joseph said that which has a beginning must have an end... If there was a spirit clothing of our intelligence (whatever that might mean) then someday we will be stripped down to an intelligence again. (#26)

This always cracks me up. In the KFD Joseph also made it clear that our God wasn't always God. So by this logic (that all things that have a beginning must have an end) our God must necessarily cease to be God some day. Is that what you really mean to be preaching David and Curtis?

#32 Comment from: cadams [Visitor]

RE: post #17

David J. said there's an original text error with D&C 130:22. Could he elaborate on that? I see no error with that verse, or alternative versions.
Thanks

#33 Comment from: Clark Goble [Member]

David J, your argument appears to just be that there had to be "someone who go the ball rolling." Yet doesn't the appeal to actual infinities undermine? Certainly that's true for finite sets but it doesn't appear to be true for infinite sets. Counter-intuitive? Yes. But I don't see the logical problem.

#34 Comment from: Curtis [Visitor]

Cadams, I can help you out there. This information is mostly from the awesome footnotes in Ehat's "Words of Joseph Smith" book.
"Neither the William Clayton Diary, the Joseph Smith Diary here quoted, nor the draft Manuscript History of the Church entry for this date implies the phrasing of D&C 130:22, 'Were it not so [that the Holy Ghost is a spirit], the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.' Originally the wording in the Manuscript History of the Church entry for this date was the same as in the original draft, but in the 1850's the Church historians reworded it to read the way it appears in the Doctrine and Covenants. Other than this alteration, the Joseph Smith Diary is the source for D&C 130:22-23."

And the Joseph Smith Diary entry for this date says the following:

"the Father has a body of flesh & bones as tangible as mans the Son also, but the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit.--and a person cannot have the personage of the HG in his heart he may receive the gift of the holy Ghost. it may descend upon him but not to tarry with him," (original punctuation)

See the difference?

#35 Comment from: Larry [Visitor]

David J.,

You have spent a great deal of time in the different theories regarding the eternal nature of God and man.

If I may, I would like to ask you to ponder a few thoughts?
In Facsimile #2 we are told that a cubit (about 18" in length)is the equivalent of 1000 years of our time. In Moses 7:37 he says that He can "stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made."
In verse 30 we are told that if we "could number the particles of the earth, yea millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations..."
Notice that the scripture refers to the particles of the earth not the earth itself, and then add in particles from millions of earths like this not being the beginning of His creations. Where do we find finite numbers in this?
And then it tells us in v.30 that "thy curtains are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there;..."
In D&C 88:41 it says "He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever." This raises a question as to how big He is.
And of course we could refer to 88:11 where the light that proceeds from His throne gives life to all things...
Where does the finite mind go to comprehend Him and His Father, and so on, back as far as eternity past? What about eternity future?
What happens if He ceases to be God because He has reached the finite end of those whom He can procreate; doesn't that destroy all His creations also, since they get their life from the light that proceeds forth from Him, and if He ceases to be God, then He no longer possesses the throne, and the light is gone?
Back to the cubit. If a cubit is approximately 18" in length, let's assume that it is cubed so that He can hold it in His hands, like a box. How much time does that incorporate if each cubit is 1000 years? How many creations does that cubit cubed hold for observation,since He can hold all His creations in His hands? How many cubed cubits is He capable of holding? How much space does He live in? Is He in a 9' x 9' x 9'cell so that His space is limited and He can only create so many earths and is therefore limited in the time He can be a God? And on and on it goes.
I would appreciate your observations.

#36 Comment from: Christopher Bradford (Grasshopper) [Member]

cadams, I posted about the error in D&C 130:22 some time ago here at M*:

http://www.millennialstar.org/index.php/2005/04/01/all_scripture_is_given_by_inspiration_of

Permalink 12/18/05 @ 02:20

#37 Comment from: Curtis [Visitor]

Bookslinger,
I see what you are saying when you propose that the "all that has a beginning must have an end" principle must not apply where the spirit comes into play since it must not apply with the resurrection.

I can't see any way around this though. Either the principle is true for all things or none in my mind. The ring that David loves; it goes around in a circle and returns to the same place again. There is no beginning and no end. I know this must seem problematic when it comes to eternal marriage and the resurrection etc.

One idea to float around though, is the explanation of the word, "eternal" in D&C 19. It applies to that which is associated with God and appears not to refer to an infinite measure of time. Seen in this light, even Eternal Life might have an end. Eternal marriage too. Have fun throwing that one back in my face.

#38 Comment from: Curtis [Visitor]

Larry, I tend to be of the opinion that there is some sort of figurative word play there when the Lord says He can hold his works in his hands.
Also, even very big numbers are finite.

#39 Comment from: Larry [Visitor]

Curtis,

Then what you are saying is that God speaks figurtively to impress us, so that we will what...speculate and philosophize. What we don't understand we put limits on. Understanding the principle of light might clear this one up.

Why do you think He used the comparison of a cubit of length = 1000 years of time? Within a cubed cubit there is 1 billion years of time.
If all things are present before him (that being all things past, present, and future,) and He is through, and around, and about all things, then why couldn't He hold all His creations in His hands? How insignificant a billion years is when it can be put in an 18"x18"x18" box.

The purpose in my using the illustration of a cubed cubit was to demonstrate the folly of trying to put limits on God or His creations. He is not limited in terms of space, material, or time.
The only limit on His creative abilities appears to be the number of spirit children He can have. Since, as some speculate, there is a finite number of intelligences that can be made into spirits, not only is He limited in His creative ability, but His promise to us that we can become like Him and do what He does is really a lie, because when we get there all the intelligences may have been used up,...doesn't that sound a little ludicrous?

We can't escape the argument by simply stating that even large numbers have limits. It is a circular argument that comes to no conclusion. Either what the Lord says is true or it isn't. If it isn't then what does anything matter in the 'end'.
If spirits can be recycled, then what is the purpose of existence really? Just some pratical joke by a control freak?
Using the argument that even large numbers have limits, at some point after all the recycling is done, everyone will have been exalted and the work done. What happens then?
Someone breaks the leggo blocks down and we start over again?

#40 Comment from: Bookslinger [Visitor]

Curtis: (#37) To me, the word "beginning" does not mean something was created out of nothingness. I think that was the point Joseph was making in the King Follet Discourse. Whether it was in the KFD or elsewhere, Joseph said, and stressed, that the word "created" in Genesis should have read "organized." Hebrew scholars agree.

Joseph said that spirit beings had no beginning, that they were not created. However, that does not mean they weren't organized or "assembled" (or even "spirit obstetics" if you want to use hyperbole) by exalted beings who took a pre-existing eternal intelligence and clothed it in pre-existing eternal spirit matter which they assembled into the form of a spirit body, and then somehow used their own "eternal light" to kindle or activate that intelligence in that spirit body.

That raw intelligence always existed; and the spirit matter of its body had always existed. But then, as I envision it, the two parts were combined or organized, and the intelligence then had an instrument with which to see, act, move about, and communicate.

I think it is possible that the intelligence was somehow dormant until it came under the influence of, or received the radiation of light, from the exalted couple.

#41 Comment from: Curtis [Visitor]

Larry,
I don't know, but you may be onto something with your spirit recycling illustration. We don't really know what our endpoint is, or what happens after this life. We really know disturbingly little about the eternities.
To me, everything you mentioned above as means of an arguement against what I'm inferring, is a possibility. The dead end you come to is the purpose of it all if recycling is the answer. Perhaps all we can see is a "practical joke by a control freak," but perhaps there is a greater purpose we haven't thought of.
I should try not to cling too tightly to any opinion about the afterlife. I'm open to MMP's, spirit obstetrics (though it really seems ludicrous to me) etc.
Wish I really knew.

#42 Comment from: Curtis [Visitor]

Bookslinger,
Sure, I grant you that possibility. I couldn't say anything with absolute assurance anyway. We should leave open the possibility though that the "organization" of the premortal spirits was a social organization. Many statement of Joseph Smith seem to support that idea. For example, "The Father called all spirits before him at the creation of man, and organized them," and, "At the first organization in heaven we were all present and saw the Savior chosen and appointed, and the plan of salvation made and we sanctioned it," and, "He who rules in the heavens when he has a certain work to do calls the Spirits before him to organize them," and Joseph Fielding Smith who said, "Men were organized in some such way as we are organized here in the kingdom of God. Among the spirits of men there were fuperior intelligences chosen to act in authority."
The scripture that is cited as proof text for a spirit birth is D&C 76:24 which testifies, "that by him, and through him, and of him; the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God." Grammatically speaking, the preposition "unto" is dative, making God the indirect object of the birth mentioned. It would require the genitive preposition "of" to make God the one who is giving birth. The preposition unto is only used elsewhere in scripture when associated with birth to describe the siring of a child by one person to be given to or for the benefit of another. For example, "unto us a child is born;" "his brother shall...raise up seed unto me." Of course, the official view on this scripture is that this verse refers to the spiritual rebirth through Christ.
Orson Pratt had a different view here. He said, "Notice, this does not say that God, whom we serve and worship, was actually the Father Himself, in His own person, of all these sons and daughters of the different worlds, but they're begotten sons and daughters unto God, that is, begotten by those who are made like him...They begat sons and daughters, and begat them unto God, to inhabit these different worlds."
Go figure.
(The above was mostly taken from Charles R. Harrell's "The Development of the Doctrine of Preexistence, 1830-1844" as it appeared in BYU Studies 1988. I've got the PDF if anyone would like me to send them a copy.)

#43 Comment from: Geoff Johnston [Visitor] · http://www.newcoolthang.com

I responded to David J and Curtis in a post here. (Synopsis: I think that beginningless and irreducible spirits are incompatible with progress.)

#44 Comment from: who cares [Visitor]

Intelligence exists in varying degrees of order from least to great. God told Abraham that where two intelligences exist, one of them is more intelligent than the other. And another is still more intelligent than them both, and so on until one ascends to the order of the most high, which is more intelligent than them all. It seems reasonable to me that a noble particle, or germ of intelligence can be called, chosen, and set apart from other intelligences to quicken and preside over a collective body of the same - spirit. Much like an Elder can be called and set apart from his piers to preside over the whole quorum as their president. Every Elder in the quarum posseses intelligence independant from the President, but they collectively adhere to his direction because they honor him in the capacity of his calling, as a matter of order and obedience. If we can observe the order of the Priesthood in large, easily discernable things like a quarum etc., than why not assume that the same priesthood order exist with things that we cannot see? I think that's what D&C 88 is all about when it talks about the light that eminates from the presence of the Father and fills the emensity of space, the light of truth that quickens and maintains order in all things from the most high, and closest to the Father, all the way down the scale to the least and most distant from the Father. All is intelligence acting in the sphere in which it is placed. Wither a portion of it is organized into a redeemed, exalted man, or a piece of rock drifting endlessly through the most distant reaches of space. I disagree with the notion that intelligence, spirit, and matter are all different substances. If they are all eternal and without a beginning than it seems more ligical that they are all varying degrees of the same substance. Intelligence being the quickest and most refined, or pure. Joseph Smith already said that Spirit is matter in D&C 131, so why can't intelligence be still higher and more refined matter than spirit? Indeed, intelligence is what quickens and gives life and order to the more gross orders of matter. (the light of truth) The order of the Priesthood is omnipresent, without beginning of days or end of years. I think it's more profitable to ponder the highs and lows of the order than to seek the great "first God" who organized the first worlds etc. We have to take our minds off of linear thoughts of beginnings and endings and accept that "all truth is circumscribed into one great whole" The whole being infinately divisable and existing in varying degrees from all eternity to all eternity.

#45 Comment from: Bookslinger [Visitor]

Whoe cares: I think that's what D&C 88 is all about when it talks about the light that eminates from the presence of the Father and fills the emensity of space, the light of truth that quickens and maintains order in all things from the most high, and closest to the Father, all the way down the scale to the least and most distant from the Father.

My understanding of D&C 88 is that the light that fills the immensity of space emanates from Jesus.

#46 Comment from: Clark Goble [Member]

It is the light of Christ but I don't think that means it necessarily emanates from Christ the way light emanates from the sun - although that's certainly possible. But I'd be cautious about pushing metaphors quite like that. Although personally I think taking it that way makes sense, although I personally think this would be true of all divine beings.

#47 Comment from: Curtis [Visitor]

Now that we're talking about light, just a note here. I had a physics instructor in college who told me that in breaking down the atom, the smallest irreducible particle that makes up the atom, which is the building block for all matter, is photons of light. Apparently we're all made out of light, which would make sense as to how our physical and spiritual selves react to light from God.

#48 Comment from: Clark Goble [Member]

Curtis, that's not correct. I'm not sure why he would have told you that. There are several kinds of irreducible particles (according to current physics - string theory may assert more fundamental things, but string theory isn't established physics yet). There are quarks of several colors. Quarks always appear in threes and are what constitute neutrons and protons. Then there are the electrons (for typical matter - there are more exotic kinds of atoms). Electrons are irreducible.

Now you can change quarks and electrons into energy which typically ends up with the emission of a photon. But it's not really accurate to say that they are photons.

#49 Comment from: Larry [Visitor]

It is the light of Christ that gives life to all things, but that light originates with the Father and was given to the Son (fulness of the Father in premortal existence) to act as though He were the Father in the process of creation.
As to matter, (quirks or quarks,)it is my understanding that it exists independently, but it is the light of Christ that makes it come alive and viable.

#50 Comment from: Curtis [Visitor]

The light of Christ gives life to all things, but it is also the law by which all things are governed. I think it is by our obedience to this light that we gain entrance to even the highest of kingdoms. I like the way D&C 84 explains that the Word of God, that we are supposed to be living according to, is the same as the light of Christ. It is by following the light of Christ then, according to Joseph Smith, that we can eventually have our calling and election made sure. I believe that the light of Christ then is the Savior speaking to each of us every day. The Holy Ghost is the one who brings us this light, but the Holy Ghost himself never speaks of himself, only that which he has heard from the Savior. Sometimes I fear we put the light of Christ into the category of a lesser form of revelation in the Church, saying that it is this light which guides us to the Church and then after we are baptized we "have the Holy Ghost" to guide us. I believe that it is the Holy Ghost that brings us the Light of Christ. Christ backs this up with His statement in D&C 8:2 which says: "I will tell you in your mind and in your heart, by the Holy Ghost..."

#51 Comment from: who cares [Visitor]

My point wasn't about light, it was about order. The original post on this now lengthy page was a concern that if intelligence cannot be created than there must be a finite amount of them which brings up the problem of perhaps running out of them someday for creative purposes, etc. I respond by noting that space is boundless and eternally saturated with particles of intelligence which exist in varying degrees of order from least to great. We know this because the Lord told JS that there is no space in which there is no kingdom (intelligence), and there is no kingdom in which there is no space. Since space is boundless, the eternal, finite particles of intelligence which occupy that space must be boundless in quantity as well.
If intelligence abides the laws which govern it's sphere of existance than it can be added upon, and called to quicken or govern more complex orders. This process of obedience to law continues to elevate intelligence throughout countless generations of time from lower orders to higher ones until at last it has qualified for the grandest organization in the entire reaches of space - a son, or daughter of redeemed, exalted parents. Intelligence can opt out of the process at any time through disobedience to law, the same option of course that we now have in this mortal probation.

#52 Comment from: Curtis [Visitor]

Where does it say space is boundless who cares?

#53 Comment from: who cares [Visitor]

It is a "necessary" truth that space is boundless because an opposite belief - that there's some great wall out there that marks the end of space is inconceivable.
Orson Pratt talks about the difference between "necessary" and "contingent" truths and specificaly mentions the boundlessness of space as a necessary truth. I believe you can find it in his discourse entitled, "The Great First Cause, or Self-Moving Forces of Nature" etc. I'll double check which discourse it is tonight and post tomorrow.

#54 Comment from: who cares [Visitor]

It is "Great First Cause, or the Self Moving Forces of the Universe" by Orson Pratt.

#55 Comment from: Blake [Visitor]

For what it's worth, I agree with David J and with some reservations most of his reasoning. For JS and in the BofAbr. it seems fairly clear that there is no distinction between spirits and intelligences. Spirits are eternal without creation and there isn't time a time when they transitioned from being an intelligence simplicter to be being a spirit/intelligence combination. To the extent the Proclamation on the Family assumes or adopts spirit birth, it seems to me that it is adopting a cultural overbelief that we are best instructed to resist.

#56 Comment from: Christian Y. Cardall [Visitor] · http://spinozist.blogspot.com

Blake, how do you understand references to progeny in eternity in for example D&C 132:19, 63?

#57 Comment from: LisaB [Visitor]

Funny to stumble into this conversation. Just taught the last Gospel Principles lesson of the year in Sunday School last week. Topic: Exaltation. Emphatic point of the lesson? Eternal offspring a la 132. (So much for milk before meat, eh?) So you're all saying this is only the "correlation" view? And that early JS teachings differ on this point? Help me out here.

#58 Comment from: Clark Goble [Member]

"Who Cares," I think Orson Pratt's arguments in this regard are pretty weak. Not to bring in the other topic, but I think we can establish that our universe has boundaries. Thus to rescue our doctrine of actual infinities requires multiple universes.

#59 Comment from: who cares [Visitor]

Blake- Elder Worthlin said (I believe it was the Oct 04' Conf) that intelligence is "clothed" with spirit so their must be some difference between the two.

Clark- Multiple Universes? This cannot be established by any necessity, experience, reason, analogy, or divine revelation. We are left to conclude that there is but one "space". Even the prefix of the word universe (uni) means one. The sooner we come to terms with a boundless space and eternal duration of the substance which occupies it, the sooner we can let go of our natural search for a beginning or first God, etc.

#60 Comment from: Bookslinger [Visitor]

whocares:

Didn't Stephen Hawking use "reason" to establish the possibility or even the likelihood of multiple universes?

#61 Comment from: who cares [Visitor]

What is Mr. Hawking's reason for multiple universes Bookslinger?

#62 Comment from: Clark Goble [Member]

"Who cares," theoretical physicists embrace a multiverse for two main reasons. Many attempts at unifying quantum mechanics and gravity fully note that a sufficiently flat space-time can have odd effects quantum mechanically. Some of these would lead to the same conditions as are postulated for the big bang. In string theory, one solution, called M-theory, entails multiple universes, called branes, floating in a higher dimensional space. They are all rather speculative and at this time without direct empirical evidence. But what is surprising is that after the controversy when Linde introduced the multiverse in the 90's is how widespread the multiverse has become. Very disparate physical theories end up with a multiverse.

The big problem in physics today is not that theories predict too little but rather they predict too much. The aim of physics has been to answer "why" to why various constants exist. Yet, in a multiverse situation there is no why. There are infinite possibilities and we just happen to be in the universe that has the laws of physics we see.

While the multiverse is still very theoretical, the idea that space is infinite is very much discredited and can be largely shown to be false, at least in the three dimensions we encounter.

#63 Comment from: Ivan Wolfe [Visitor] · http://inmediasrays.blogspot.com/

Well, we all know the Multiverse was destroyed in 1985 by the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

However, the single universe was imperfectly put together, as Donna Troy just found out. And since the Earth-2 Superman has just returned, perhaps the recent Infinite Crisis will restore the Multiverse.

(oh - wait, wrong message board discussion) ;-)

#64 Comment from: who cares [Visitor]

Clark your argument is fragmented and unclear. Do you really think Orson Pratt's declaration of a boundless space is weak because theoretical physicists embrace a "multiverse"? (apparently for "two main reasons" although you fail to itemize them) WARNING: Beware the seduction of beautiful mathematics!
The mathematics of String Theory tell us that there exists vibrating stings of energy that behave in ways that are all together impossible in our known 3 dimensions of space. (omitting the effect of time for the moment) To account for this action they've come up with 11 dimensions that are indiscernable and entirely unprovable accept through mathematics and they're endless search to apply Gravity to all matter in all places at all times. They propose that these 11 dimensions constitute a "higher dimensional space" in which multiple 3 dimensional universes can be stacked on top of each other like sheets of paper in a reem.
When our inteligence is finaly released from the animation of our bodies at death, we shall at once discern that it is not subject to the law of Gravity at all. We can and will exist in the same space that Gravity does but will be entirely void of it's effects and limitations. There are some who have seen the resurrected Lord and can render their witness that his body occupies mass and is all together exempt from the law of Gravity. The universal effect of Gravity must therefore be a manafestation of obedience to Divine Law. Yes, man has learned how to express this Law with mathematics but we are not free to assume that inteligence is eternaly bound and shackled to that Law. Indeed, "inteligence is free in the shere in which it is placed to act for itself, otherwise there is no existance." Man's attempt to unify the forces of the universe excludes the application of faith and relys soley on what can be "proven". Daniel prophesied of our day and said that man would worship the "God of Forces" (ch 10, or 11 I think) and I again caution any and all concerned not to tread lightly the revealed truths of heaven from the Lord's Annointed because "theoretical physicists embrace a multivers for two main reasons".

#65 Comment from: Clark Goble [Member]

I think that Orson Pratt's declarations are weak because he offers no evidence for him and because his conception of matter is wrong.

I think that whatever one does one has to account for the big bang and the empirical fact that the universe is finite in size. If you can do that please let me know how.

For the record I don't consider string theory a correct physical theory. I just note the reasons why a multiverse is important. I also think a multiverse is the only way to reconcile the empirical facts of our universe with the necessity of certain kinds of infinities our theology requires.

#66 Comment from: Heli [Visitor]

Clark

I can't believe you accept the theory that the universe is finite, much less that you state your theory as fact. As a physics student I saw how the big bang theory changed at least 4 times as better telescopes and technology showed the "known" universe to be much larger than previously anticipated.

We could exist in one large group of stars and one universe away there could be another group of stars we have not dectected yet because the light will take so long to get to us, or because we don't have equipment that can detect stars that far away. The idea that we can even know the universe is finite is not justified by science and goes against scripture.

Empirical Fact? Can you define this term for me, because I think we have different definitions of empirical facts. If we don't can you show me the evidence this universe is finite? Please draw a map showing how far our universe extends and explain how it doesn't go any farther.

#67 Comment from: Heli [Visitor]

Clark

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but can you refer me to any material showing that an unlimited universe has been discredited?

I've had these discussions before because I had an institute teacher with a science background and when we discussed the infinte number of intelligences I started thinking about the different sizes of infinity. (I had just taken imaginary numbers)

Theoretically you can have an infinite amount of mass in a finite amount of space if the mass is infinitely dense (a theoretical possibility that doesn't sound possible in the natural universe). Even a black hole is not infinitely dense though it is very difficult for us to attempt to calculate the numbers. Certainly infinitely dense objects are mathmatically possible. The point is you can have an infinite number of people in an infinte space, but it doesn't seem possible to know if either is infinite, especially if one of the infinities is growing.

#68 Comment from: Clark Goble [Member]

An unlimited universe is impossible to reconcile with gravity, isn't it?

I guess I'm not following your logic. There are (and will continue to be) modifications to the big bang. But you are advocating something quite bit stronger. It's one thing to say our calculations of mass are wrong or (in present day controversies) that our ideas of dark matter are off. It's quite an other to say the universe is infinite.

#69 Comment from: Heli [Visitor]

So why is an infinte universe incompatible with gravity? Because gravitational forces act on objects regardless of the distance? Our understanding of gravity is very limited. Gravity may have a radius of effect, or other systems of mass may be so far that their effect on us is unmeasureable.

Imagine our universe is the size of a grape and the next universe is where the moon is or where Jupiter is, who would know. We certainly would not be able to feel their gravitational effect.

I may be wrong, I'm not an astro-physicist.

#70 Comment from: Clark Goble [Member]

Doesn't your response reduce down to "maybe everything we know about physics is wrong?"

#71 Comment from: who cares [Visitor]

Space is boundless Clark, no matter what you call it or how you subdivide it. You can say there's a universe here or there, you can say there's a multiverse which envelopes them here or there, or everywhere, but no matter how you classify it - space, in and of itself is boundless.
Deity can never run ouf of space to propagate the great plan of happiness and order amongst the varying degrees of eternal, uncreated inteligences.

A Puzzle within an Enigma within a Cornflake Packet

2007-02-25T22:46:00.000Z

Can anyone help me with this one as its popped into my head on numerous occasions over the years but I am no further forward.

In D&C 93:29 reads: "Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be."

Can anyone give any insight into how there can be an infinite amount of intelligences whilst at the same time no new intelligences being created?

I is a Poette & I Does Knowette

2007-02-25T22:34:00.000Z

Is the blogging world ready for some delectable words strung together in a melodic,
some might say irresistible combination to bring peace & harmony into your little world.

Here is a sample which if chanted at midnight for 15 minutes will bring a transformation into your daily existence.

But then again maybe not.

Irresistible Combination @1993 approx

I breathe in
your skin
so soft and warm
my eyes dilate
with delight

your touch
Is soothing
undemanding
gently caressing my doubts away
so tenderly

vunerability
and carnal pleasure
mixed together
expressed within your eyes
irresistible combination

As Jim Reeves would no doubt sing "Welcome to my Wirld"

2007-02-25T22:17:00.000Z

Well blog me
I've decided to become a blogger so here goes.
My most intimate, mundane & even scintalating thoughts can be found within the realms of my blogthought.
So what. so so, so mi far ray lar ti doe.
So whats up with me ?

I am learning to play 'Leaving on a British Airways Jet plane'
by my mate Johnny Denver using the three chord trick A-D-E.
My musicianship is on a roll. Having a spot of bother with the Bm chord which I am using on my classic song "SkinCrawl"

So this blog as you can see is just a wee little test blog.To my fans, friends & intimate aquintences may I leave you with these profound words:

And my Father dwelt in a tent